Comment on My open letter to the tech industry on sexism, HR, and Linus Tech Tips
darkstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I just read through Madison’s whole account of what happened and all the comments here. I have a few key takeaways:
- People are naive - Get shit in writing. Verbal promises aren’t worth a damn.
- Experience matters - It sounds to me like Madison, Colton, and most of the management staff have no idea how to properly manage (up or down). This is a massive problem, but not a surprise. I can say the same for the people in the comments here. You WILL be in shitty situations at work. How you navigate them matters and will determine if your claims will be successful. The most important thing I can tell her, them, and all of you is KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!
- Most people have no idea what they’re talking about - Everyone saying that the government needs to always be involved, or that this is why we need unions has no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. I’m not anti-union, I’m anti-bureaucracy. You think things moved too slowly when you asked for a mirror? Wait until there are MORE people in between that MUST be involved.
- Her mental health is concerning - I don’t know if her mental health issues existed before LMG, but they don’t do much besides detract from her potentially valid points. I’m concerned this will be used to dismiss the issues she encountered rather than fix them. I, personally, didn’t have a high opinion of her when I saw her for the first time (I think it was one of the videos where fans get a custom computer). It makes me wonder how much of this is overblown, but that doesn’t mean her complaints are all invalid. This will be a tough road for her.
The key takeaway, again, is KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!! You have a complaint? Write it in an email. Send it to the intended recipient, and CC HR or BCC your personal email. If you don’t have a paper trail of issues, you will lose. You were asked by your manger or by HR to solve the problem yourself by talking to the other person? Get them to verify that in writing. They’ll backpedal REALLY quickly if they have any sense. A verbal warning? That means jack shit. It can’t be held against you because the company has no paper trail (see? This cuts both ways.) An agreement where they gave you certain assurances verbally? Email the person with a summary of the conversation as you understood it and ask for confirmation of your understanding.
All of this is how you protect yourself as an employee and as an employer. GET SHIT IN WRITING and then use those notes as proof if you need to appeal to a higher authority (HR, upper management, or the government arm responsible for labor issues). And yeah, people have trouble like this because people don’t speak out. You need to not just KNOW your rights, but also EXERCISE THEM.
I say all of this as somebody in a management position. Employees rarely know what the inner workings for disciplinary issues looks like, or how long it takes to be carried out. A complaint doesn’t simply result in termination unless it’s egregious (in which case your complaint needs to be DOCUMENTED BY YOU AS WELL, not just left in the hands of HR or management). I live my life by “trust but verify”. I only trust one person to act in my best interest, and that’s me, so I’m going to give me the best chance of doing that by DOCUMENTING EVERYTHING.
That said, you all need to understand that managing people doesn’t start with a management position. Every relationship needs to be managed and curated. You need something from Suzy? Ask her nicely. Still didn’t get that thing? Email her. Maybe she’s just busy or forgot (but you’ve started your paper trail). No response from Suzy? Follow up on your email and CC her manager. Consider CCing or BCCing your manager as well. Suzy may not like it, but you’re just doing your job. The same rules apply when you’re managing up. Sometimes you’ll get an absolute turd of a manager. It WILL happen, so be prepared to deal with it. It will absolutely suck to deal with, and you will be frustrated, but you’ll have documentation of your position, not a pissing contest between two people.
Am I getting my point across? You’re not a unique snowflake, you’re another cog in the machine. Protect yourself (and others!) by documenting and verifying. And if you see somebody being treated like shit, it’s your job to also raise that!!! Just because it’s not happening to you doesn’t mean you should ignore it. You felt uncomfortable when somebody else got publicly berated? FUCKING SAY SOMETHING! I had a rather incompetent manager start to chastise me in front of the employees I managed at the time. I was 18 or 19 back then. I asked her to stop and to follow me. We went to a separate area and I proceeded to explain to her that I didn’t appreciate what she did. Her complaints may have been valid, but the way she handled it was inappropriate, and I asked her to make sure that if she has a problem with me in the future to please bring it to me privately. She saw the problem and agreed that she was wrong in how she handled it, and thanked me for my handling of the situation. YOU CAN DO THIS, TOO! You can email HR and the CEO after he storms into your area and goes off on somebody. You can say that you felt unsafe in that moment, and that you don’t appreciate how that person was treated. You can stand up for others and for yourself. If you want to be successful in your career YOU NEED TO LEARN TO MANAGE UP!
TORFdot0@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Thank you for this well-written and thought out post. I agree wholeheartedly with your entire post, you basically said my thoughts but with tact. I’ve been trying to come up with a way to express my take on the situation but was struggling to without sounding unfair to either Madison or LMG.
It really sounds like everyone was working “at their dream job” and that’s a bad thing because of you are working your “dream job” the temptation is there to put aside your integrity, mental health, and self-advocacy and also subjugate your coworkers in order to keep it. The insane upload schedule in order to keep on the right side of the algorithm doesn’t help the culture too.
Ultimately it looks like company never grew up from its roots as a small group of guys having fun making content for the internet and as people were hired to their “dream job” things were no longer “guys having fun” and instead were ingrained as a toxic work culture
darkstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
You’re right. This is what happens when things are lax. Nobody wants to be bureaucratic for no reason. Everybody tries to avoid being too serious too soon. There’s a reason business jargon is its own meme. But there’s also a reason that things trend in that direction for established companies. You need structure for your managers and employees if you want to stop tripping over yourself and you want accountability.
I had a friend of mine recently approach me about an issue he was having with his employees at his small business. My first question was whether they have an employee handbook that says they can’t do the things he’s trying to prevent (drug or alcohol use on the clock). Working with heavy machinery doesn’t mix well with drugs and alcohol, but if people aren’t told they can’t then there’s a chance they will. This might sound obvious, but because they’re a small company they were trying to “be fun” and not stuffy. They had beer in the fridge at work for people to crack open on Friday afternoons after a long week. Unfortunately, they weren’t only drinking it on Friday afternoons, and they were also smoking weed on company grounds before operating heavy machinery. At some point you have to say enough is enough and drop the fun when people can’t be responsible.
Managing people is like being a therapist, a friend, a parent, and a lawyer all in one. And worse, people don’t seem to grow up much (if at all) beyond high school. People come to you with their personal problems (or sometimes don’t, but a performance issue may arise from a personal problem at home), people need encouragement and honest feedback, people need a firm hand and to be guided and given direction, and you also need to protect the company from potential litigation by saying the right thing or not saying the wrong thing, as well as the need to protect employees from themselves, each other, and third parties (contractors, vendors, clients, and customers). Managing is hard, and that’s why companies mandate HR training for management positions. Furthermore, cases are rarely, if ever, clear cut. Two people have a problem with each other? Time to put aside the work I had planned for today and go figure out why these two assholes can’t get along. It sounds like managers at LMG need more training, and Colton might not be the right person to lead HR. Employees need to be adults, but also need to be able to rely on management to help them resolve issues they can’t resolve themselves. Telling them to figure it out and talk to the other party isn’t good enough. LMG needs to do better
I often use the phrase “put on my big boy pants”, but have never told an employee to “put on their big boy/girl pants”. I’ve joked that “reading is fundamental” when I misread or skim something and come to the wrong conclusion, but never when somebody else does. That said, I’ve told an employee that they’re acting childish, and explained why I expected more from them. The issues I’m hearing seem to stem from just being relatively young people and being a relatively recently established company. You can’t talk to your employees like you talk to your friends. Hell, I was privileged enough to hire a friend recently, and I compartmentalize personal and work. If not, I might end up doing something that could damage the company. I know how much to trust him with, so it’s not like my personal experience with him doesn’t factor in at all, but I need to choose how much to share, when to share it, and how to share it, even if I want to tell him everything I might know about a particular situation. Maybe if he didn’t work for me I’d be more likely to share privileged information because he doesn’t work for the same company, but now that he does I need to make sure I don’t say something that puts him in a bad spot to know, and doesn’t put me in a bad spot if he slips up and divulges privileged knowledge. It sounds like some of the managers at LMG aren’t making these distinctions and simply approach work situations like they would personal ones.
“That’s not how I meant it” isn’t a valid defense, at least in the US, when it comes to HR complaints. It doesn’t matter what you meant, but how it was received by others. I’d say they overlooked this one rule a lot based on Madison’s writeup, and I’m not, at all, surprised. But, like I said, this comes down to poor training.