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Comment on Lemmy's gaining popularity, so I thought new people should see this.

JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

This feels like arguing with a Jehovah’s witness. To your credit, you’re not getting annoyed or abusive in the face of my contradiction. But then that’s also a hallmark of religious people: absolute certitude, which provides a certain peace of mind.

I’ll admit that I had to look up “AES”, which appears to refer to countries that pass the magical litmus test of Marx-Engels Compatibility.

I will simply sum up my own analysis. The precise terminology of the PRC’s political system is unimportant. What is important is that wherever the recipes of Marx have been tried, the result has been violence, brutality, oppression, famine, economic ruin. I say that as a student of history. Literally: it was my degree. But the facts are in the public domain for all to see. And so I agree with Orwell, who saw it before so many others: there comes a point where you have to accept that the thing is irredeemable, and instead try something else.

That’s really all I have to say on the subject. Of course I respect your right to your own viewpoint.

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Edie@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What happens if you turn this around?

The precise terminology of the US’s political system is unimportant. What is important is that wherever the recipes of [Liberalism] have been tried, the result has been violence, brutality, oppression, famine, economic ruin.

This is all true of course. So what then? Do you also reject Liberalism?

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- JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  By no reasonable definition of the word “liberalism” has it caused those things on a scale remotely approaching that of communism. This is not controversial.
  
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  - Edie@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Has it not? Has it not caused the death of 1 million people in Indonesia? Has it not caused 7 million excess deaths due to “shock-therapy” in Russia alone? Has it not caused the brutality, violence and oppression of the “dictatorships” that the CIA installed in Latin America? Has it not caused countless Famines? Has it not caused the economic ruin of Africa and Latin America?
    
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OpenStars@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There are those - like Jules Verne, HG Wells, and yes Orwell - who can see far into the future not because they are fucking magicians or whatever, but bc they allowed themselves to see clearly. Which in turn I think comes from mental discipline to ruthlessly weed out the false thoughts that would choke the life out of the true ones.

Anyway I’m full of trite quotes in this reply I guess but even so, those who don’t learn from their history are doomed to repeat it, and lately I (who lives in America) am very worried about that thought… and yet there too it is history that gives me comfort. No nation (afaict) has ever survived devolving into a 2-party state, but even Rome fell too once upon a time… long may it live.

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Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Then as a student of history, are you saying the Tsars, Kuomintang, Batista regime, and so forth were better for their citizenry than the Communists? It’s very well-recorded just how bad the previous regimes were and how dramatically material conditions improved post-revolution.

This feels like arguing with a Jehovah’s witness. To your credit, you’re not getting annoyed or abusive in the face of my contradiction. But then that’s also a hallmark of religious people: absolute certitude, which provides a certain peace of mind.

The fact that I have carefully cited multiple different sources from multiple periods and patiently responded to your bold-faced attacks makes me a “Jehovah’s Witness?” What about those supposed “much better alternatives to Capitalism?” Where are those? I have responded to every point you’ve made, and your response has been to belittle me and take the high-ground without responding in kind. That’s rude.

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- JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Arguing is tiring, and here the payoff will be small since the conversation has moved on, few others are reading. I’ve made my point.
  
  Look on the positive side. Humans being what they are, it’s not usually reason that wins debates, but rather the agreeableness of the participants. So you’ve probably won this one by default.
  
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