AI driver: review of Mark Rober's LIDAR showcase

Comments

• OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The friendships with LIDAR suppliers aside (always a problem with these kinds of things),

  1. the full self driving wouldn’t have saved the wall.
  2. He’s telling a story. Disabling autopilot because he’s nervous is good storytelling because it’s science communication, not science. Its also cause he knows it’s super likely to fail.
  3. He did show LIDAR having troubles - the heavy rain. Its just good enough to peak through it to stop the car before it hits the kid. it’s just that the self driving ALSO has trouble with this, and in fact worse troubles. LIDAR has trouble in places where the light is going to be blocked, a situation that a pure camera solution on a Tesla is not going to solve. Not unlikely to solve, NOT GOING to solve. In the real world, if light can’t penetrate through a thing twice, it’s unlikely to only do it once.
  4. Its not supposed to be scientific, it’s science communication. Science is testing and retesting. He did one test and called it good.

  Yup, LIDAR isn’t a silver bullet for every situation to do sensing. But it’s a damn sight better than pure cameras. And Musk would have known this if he was a good engineer. But hes not. Hes a spoiled, rich, apartheid-loving, racist asshole that thinks he’s a good programmer and engineer.

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  • Bell@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Why does no one mention why they dropped LIDAR: Who do you trust when vision conflicts with LIDAR? There were constant problems on this point.

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    • OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yup, but that’s going to be true in every environment. Conflicting or noisy signals are always going to be there when you have multiple sensors. Theres going to be conflicts between pure camera systems - what if a camera sensor goes buggy and starts putting out data that says there’s always a thing to the left?

      More systems giving data to establish ground truth is better. Dont Boeing yourself into thinking that one sensor is good enough - that’s how you kill people.

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  • Eideen@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    1. Until someone re do the test, we will not know.
    2. yes if you do it knowingly, then redo it without talking control.
    3. Yes and no, he did put it down as a win.
    4. Mark is an engineer and has a good history of using scientific process. He has previously shown that it can be combined.

    I know sadly that Tesla has lost a lot of respect due to Elon, especially over the last 4 years.

    Engineer is in large part about balancing cost vs features. Yes the will be cases where LIDAR is better, but it comes at high cost. Think about it what is break over point the where the 0.1% edge case where LIDAR will do better, justify the cost.

    If the test that Mark show to unexpected drivers I think many humans drivers will failed. Like spoting a dark stationary object in fog or heavy rain, is very difficult.

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    • OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      1. They have - autopilotreview.com/lidar-vs-cameras-self-driving… Rober wasn’t the first or the last, just the most recently public.
      2. That was not the point of the video.
      3. It did stop, yes. That is a win. Didn’t kill the kid. The Tesla didn’t. It killed the kid. That’s a fail. What’s your point?
      4. Why would you run a test multiple times with the high potential for damage to a very expensive vehicle when it’s not supposed to be published in a journal? You talk about cost vs features for manufacturers but don’t apply that same logic to Rober. Its also a one-off thing for Rober, so the math is better for him than the “cheaper, OK with kids dying” method of Musk.

      I think you’re underestimating how many situations a LIDAR system will be better than an all camera system. Its also a tradeoff in human lives. I’d rather it be slightly more expensive up front and not have kids die than cheap and kill kids.

      And yes. Self driving should be better than humans. Cause humans suck as drivers. We have two cameras in one location in the car. Self driving must be better and make up for the limitations of humans. Cameras dont make up for them and thus are a terrible replacement for humans.

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    • mbirth@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      1. Until someone re do the test, we will not know.

      youtube.com/watch?v=9KyIWpAevNs

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• Tungsten5@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Looks like you are trying really hard to defend Teslas ‘self driving’ bullshit. Tesla only using cameras for this is stupid. If you can’t see that then its a good thing you aren’t an engineer. Also, it was a youtube video for entertainment. Not a scientific study. You are trying too much here

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• fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Obvious simp is obvious

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• Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The single biggest issue must be that it was just funny / thought provoking content on YouTube - not a groundbreaking thesis being developed in real time.

  However, some apparent shortcomings of the Tezla are probably worth following-up… by far more qualified individuals in a far more formal and peer reviewable environment.

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  • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Here’s a link to that original video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJL3htsDyQ

    I hadn’t seen it before.

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    • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Thank you.

      I saw it a few days ago. I know the guy from his glitterbomb videos but it was the Roadrunner vibe that really attracted me this time

      I’m no scientist but if you can map space mountain with lidar then… it’s probably better then a camera at identifying physical objects blocking your path. And his short experiment seems to support that.

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• Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t think it was very good response. All the points he brings up do not change any of the outcomes. Fsr would likely still fail all these tests.

  Ive watched a lot of AI driver and I think fsr is cool but its lack of lidar is a huge mistake and creates these dangerous situations whete Tesla isn’t smart enough to mimic the awareness of a real driver.

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  • Eideen@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    lack of lidar is a huge mistake and creates these dangerous situations whete Tesla isn’t smart enough to mimic the awareness of a real driver.

    Can you give some examples?

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    • Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah every single test in marks video

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• xyro@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Copium from Tesla bag holder

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