TNC: I don’t have much hope for a Harris presidency. I think more about systems. Abe Lincoln did not come into office wanting to smash slavery. Events dictated that that was what happened in politics. And not the least was the politics of Black people pushing in that direction.

So when I say I don’t really have hope for a Harris presidency disrupting that colonial system, it is not like I have hope for some other Democratic president doing it. I think these things are deeply, deeply entrenched.

Should Kamala Harris win this year and in 2028 run again and there’d be no change in the US’s Israel policy at all, the calculus will be roughly something like this: “I will continue to fund and support Israel’s right to apartheid. I will continue to be the arms provider for that. And that is the price of maintaining a woman’s right to choose.” Or something roughly like that. That’s a depressing prospect because Black people have been in that role that Palestinians would be in or are in right now. The New Deal was passed on our back, right? In order for it to happen, we had to be cut out of it.