Comment on Some subreddits could be paywalled, hints Reddit CEO
Natanael@slrpnk.net 1 month agoHonestly it shouldn’t be either. Moderation requirements are too different and the direction and culture can be way too different.
HOWEVER what we should have is official support for publishing multi-subs, like reddit’s multireddit feature, where multiple mod teams can agree to advertise their chosen combo that displays a hybrid view.
The most complicated part here is deduplication of threads. That’s easiest to deal with by detecting crossposts and showing them as a single view with comments from all participating subs.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
I disagree on all points. Moderation is irrelevant to an agglomerated view and without a DEFAULT view of the entire Lemmyverse, it will just centralize around the “one big community”, it is already happening. “Multireddit” feature is useless against this. If full agglomeration view is not the default view of /c/books then it will never make sense to post anywhere but “the one big community”. This kills decentralization and dooms Lemmy to be just teddit with extra steps.
It is probably already too late for lemmy, the entrenched Lemmy elites would probably block this from becoming the default even if the codebase supported it.
Scrollone@feddit.it 1 month ago
I think the real trick should be having big communities in many different instances.
It’s okay to have a big community on one instance, it’s like having a forum hosted at one server. The problem arises when most big communities are on the same big server.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Big communities are the problem. The power of thought control is even more present in moderators as it is in server admins. The idea that server admin are Reddit’s problem is a distraction due to that one especially abusive reddit admin but the same problems exists with moderators.
Anything other than a vast array of tiny instances agglomerated into a single view will do. The alternative is the elite captured internet overton bubbles that have been rotting our minds for over a decade now. There should be so many that as a whole they are ungovernable.
Moderation is the user’s duty, the position of internet janitor must be abolished as it is always abused.
Once the repugnant moderators are finally finally gone, user based moderation tools will naturally follow, I imagine they will take the shape of a cross between Hollywood blacklists and uBlock origin.
Collectively managed, user selected, personnalised block and boost lists.
There will be many such lists to cater to different proclivities, they will be built on crowdsourcing in user collectives, AI powered reputation and ideology analysis per user history and simple rules like, minimum account creation date, server origin reputation, what cloud-words of communities they are posting to.
Block lists, boost lists and content discovery should all happen on the user’s device and under their full control (and complete privacy).
Anyway, none of that happens with community agglomeration by default. And if things remain the way they are then Lemmy is stillborn.
Natanael@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
You’re basically suggesting bluesky style label services
And no that can not be the only solution avaliable. You have probably never seen a well moderated community, or at least not participated in one for long
Natanael@slrpnk.net 1 month ago
That already happens in the global popular feed though, I already see multiple variations of the same subs across different servers without subscribing.
Any shared agglomorated view based just on name needs to allow subs to opt out (I run /r/crypto on reddit, and it’s for CRYPTOGRAPHY and I wished all the spammers would go and set themselves on fire) and you absolutely can not force it onto everybody.
You’re also stuck with the same problem of less popular subs not getting many views because their content ends up last, because they don’t have as big dedicated userbases.
You also get an even worse problem of malicious servers faking high popularity to dominate (like when /r/T_D manipulated reddit) if you do it the naive way. And new users won’t know the best place to post to (usually the place with the most reliable mods).
You also can’t do thread deduplication without cooperating mods, so you get intense clutter. You also break apart sub specific culture if they get flooded by strangers.
The only way you can even get close to a sane implementation with your take is by putting a banner at the top of every thread in that view with the host sub description and the rules and forcing everybody to agree before interacting. Otherwise off topic content gets upvoted when it shouldn’t, sub specific events gets ruined immediately, and people will get pissed when they get moderated under rules they should’ve read but didn’t.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
These problem should all be resolved client side by mutually curated block lists, boost lists, aliases list and many other methods and it should happen with the users final say. They must always be the one to choose which ideological blinders they want to put on. And when posting to any /c/books the default visibility should be the same assuming a neutral reputation server and a neutral reputation user.
Anything else will lead to the one big community controlled by a small caste of moderator-kings forever as has happened on reddit.
To me escaping the filter bubble through decentralisation is the winning promise for Lemmy and it currently falls far short of that. And every day that this remains the case, the lemmy elites are becoming more entrenched and better able to steer the narrative in their favor.
Natanael@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
See also slrpnk.net/comment/10312933
What you’re suggesting can’t work
I sympathize with some of it, but you’re going too far
Content addressable posts like what Bluesky’s atproto does and cryptographic identity allows for portable posts and identities, and it even allows forkable communities as you can import and move entire conversations, and even mirror conversations that one team of mods may not like into another community
Literally impossible according to the CAP theorem (database terminology) in a decentralized network where not all servers federate with all (often because they just never have interacted and thus don’t know of each other)
You have to push the communities to participate in multiple parallel communities, that’s much more reliable. Together with a credible threat that the community can depose bad mod teams by forking, you have a much better chance of preventing bad mod behavior