Comment on To all you outside of the US...

• Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  those advantages seem to ignore that more people voted for her.

  How can that be ignored it is the conclusion of the argument. Those advantages meant more people voted for her.

  He was an independent running as a Democrat,

  Listen dear, all politicians are independents running as Democrats/Republicans.

  claiming it’s unfair when the Democratic party was more aligned with the person who had always been a Democrat.

  The whole point of a primary is to determine who the democratic party is more aligned with. It is unfair to determine that in advance.

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  • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So what were the advantages? The usual one I hear listed is superdelegates, which doesn’t matter if more people voted for the winner, or that they didn’t proactively inform his campaign about funding tricks that the Clinton campaign already knew about.

    Are you saying that Clinton was an independent who just happened to align with the party for her entire political career?

    I’m not sure you know how political affiliation or “people” work. Being a member of the party for decades vs being a member for months matters. Those are called “connections”, and it’s how most politicians get stuff done: by knowing people and how to talk to them.

    The point of a primary is to determine who the candidate is, not who the party is more aligned with. Party leadership will almost always be more aligned with the person who has been a member longer, particularly when that person has been a member of part leadership themselves. It’s how people work. You prefer a person you’ve known and worked with for a long time over a person who just showed up to use your organization, and by extension you, for their own goals.
    We have rules to make sure that those unavoidable human preferences don’t make it unfair.

    The Obama campaign is a good example. He didn’t have the connections that Clinton did, so party leadership favored her. Once they actually voted, he got more so leadership alignment didn’t matter and he was the candidate. He then worked to develop those connections so that he and the party were better aligned and work together better, and he won. Yay!

    So what rules did they break for Clinton? What advantages did she have over Sanders that she didn’t have over Obama?
    Which of those advantages weren’t just "new people to the party didn’t know tools the party made available?”

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    • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So what were the advantages?

      Debbie Wasserman Schultz, chairwoman of the Democratic Party, was found to have sent an email during the primary election saying Mr Sanders “would not be president”

      There were six primaries where ties were decided by the flip of a coin — and Clinton won every single one. The odds of that happening are 1 in 64, or less than 2 percent

      The usual one I hear listed is superdelegates, which doesn’t matter if more people voted for the winner,

      superdelegates system favoured Clinton by pre-announcing their support, giving Clinton a massive early lead.

      or that they didn’t proactively inform his campaign about funding tricks that the Clinton campaign already knew about.

      Clinton bought the DNC by paying off the debt created after Obama.

      Are you saying that Clinton was an independent who just happened to align with the party for her entire political career?

      I’m saying she doesn’t align and would happily run as an independent if she thought she would be elected.

      The point of a primary is to determine who the candidate is, not who the party is more aligned with.

      “The party” is the people who vote in the primary.

      Party leadership will almost always be more aligned with the person who has been a member longer, particularly when that person has been a member of part leadership themselves.

      Party leadership is not the party.

      It’s how people work. You prefer a person you’ve known and worked with for a long time over a person who just showed up to use your organization, and by extension you, for their own goals.

      Exactly. This is why the primaries were rigged in Clinton’s favor and Sanders and his supporters were right to claim unfairness.

      We have rules to make sure that those unavoidable human preferences don’t make it unfair.

      Those rules were broken. Debbie Wasserman Schultz has to resign.

      The Obama campaign is a good example.

      Of fairness (or a super strong candidate beating stacked odds).

      So what rules did they break for Clinton?

      • Campaign finance
      • Debate questions
      • Impartiality

      What advantages did she have over Sanders that she didn’t have over Obama?

      I haven’t researched how unfair Obama had it so I can’t compare.

      Which of those advantages weren’t just "new people to the party didn’t know tools the party made available?”

      Hilarious you refer to a 76 year old career politician like Sanders as a new person.

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      • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Quoting a phrase from an internal email out of context makes you seem disingenuous. The emails that were stolen show people being mean, but it also shows that they were consistently not rigging anything. Or does someone making a shitty suggestion and then a higher ranking member of the party saying “no” not fit the narrative your drawing? Or that the only time they talked about financial schemes was after the Sanders campaign alleged misconduct?

        In context, Sanders told CNN that if he was elected, she would no longer be the chair person. The internal comment was “this is a silly story. Sanders isn’t going to be president” at a time where he was already loosing.

        Debbie Wasserman Schultz has to resign.

        She did. Eight years ago.

        Tldr, party leadership preferred Clinton over Obama. Turns out that preference without misconduct doesn’t have much impact.

        you refer to a 76 year old career politician like Sanders as a new person.

        Oh please. It’s even in the bit that you quoted: new to the party. I act like he was new to the party because he was, and his campaign was run by people who didn’t know the party structures. When their inexperience with the party tools led to them not taking advantage of them, they cried misconduct for the other campaigns knowing about them.

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