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Comment on This Woman Will Decide Which Babies Are Born

barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Yeah that’s not whose arguing we should put call genetic modification eugenics.

I’m sorry but that sentence doesn’t parse for me.

And the Germans didn’t use an English word? Shocking. Truly shocking.

It’s not an English but Greek word and yes it exists in German. Nazis (unsurprisingly) weren’t big on loan words but it doesn’t end there: The non-racially charged German word would be Erbgesundheitslehre, erm, “erf health lore”. Just as neutral as a term as “genome health theory” would be. But that’s not what the Nazis used, they specifically used a term that included “race”.

One factor that comes to mind which would make me, if I were a geneticist, argue in favour of the term would be people using the term “eugenics” to smear things like screening and IFV to get rid of Hutchinson’s. Sure the field has plenty of ethical question marks but much of it is perfectly kosher, yet there’s people who are opposed on principle. Re-claiming, even appropriating the term then gets you out of the defensive.

But, as said: I don’t have a skin in the game. As said, there’s arguments for and against.

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Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You really should read your own sources.

…or in Germany [2] mostly synonymous with racial hygiene…

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- barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Eugenik (von altgriechisch εὖ eu „gut“ und γένος génos „Geschlecht, Familie“) oder Eugenetik, deutsch auch Erbgesundheitslehre, in der Zeit des Nationalsozialismus (da auch Erbpflege genannt) bzw. in Deutschland[2] meist gleichbedeutend mit Rassenhygiene (vgl. Nationalsozialistische Rassenhygiene), bezeichnet die Anwendung theoretischer Konzepte bzw. der Erkenntnisse der Humangenetik auf die Bevölkerungs- und Gesundheitspolitik bzw. den Gen-Pool einer Population mit dem Ziel, den Anteil positiv bewerteter Erbanlagen zu vergrößern (positive Eugenik) und den negativ bewerteter Erbanlagen zu verringern (negative Eugenik).
  
  Eugenik (from old Greek “good” and “dynasty, family”) or Eugenetik, German also “erf health lore”, in the time of national socialism (there also called erf maintenance) respectively in Germany mostly synonymous with racial hygiene (cf. national socialist racial hygiene), denotes the application of theoretical concepts respectively insights of human genetics on population and health politics respectively to the gene-pool of a population with the goal of increasing the share of positively evaluated hereditary dispositions (positive Eugenics) and to decrease [the share] of negatively evaluated hereditary dispositions (negative Eugenics).
  
  (my apologies for the quite literal translation I can’t be arsed but an AI will do much, much worse on that kind of dense language).
  
  Note the completely neutral actual definition, nothing about race after “denotes”. If you scroll past all the racist history to the section 'modern form of eugenics" you see a brief section about abortion, of pre-implantation diagnostics being considered (by some at least) to be eugenics, then next short section on trans- and post-humanist ethics also containing eugenics as a major theme.
  
  I’m not deep into that area either but I don’t think racial themes are common among transhumanists.
  
  I don’t have access to the book wikipedia cites, but, well:
  
  Die Begriffe Eugenik und Rassenhygiene werden in Deutschland stets synonym verwendet. Einen feinen Unterschied gibt es jedoch: Eugenik hat immer etwas mit Erbgesundheit zu tun
  
  The terms eugenics and racial hygiene are always used synonymously in Germany. A subtle distinction exists, though: Eugenics always has something to do with hereditary health.
  
  So not only does wikipedia misquote the source, the source shouldn’t be bloody cited in the first place because it contradicts itself within the span of two sentences: If there’s a distinction, they aren’t synonymous.
  
  Are we actually arguing about the use of the word in Germany, though. All, literally all I actually said about my opinion on the issue is, I quote:
  
  If anti-racist biologists want to reclaim the word, or even appropriate it as the case may be, I’m not going to call them racists over it. That needs to be judged by the practices.
  
  That’s all. Literally all. That’s my opinion on the matter. If you want to criticise something, criticise that, don’t go off on tangents.
  
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  - Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    So now you’re saying your source is useless and not to be trusted? I mean, it’s Wikipedia, I’m not surprised. But your original assertion that the Nazis weren’t into Eugenics is still dead in the water. It formed the basis of their racial theories.
    
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    barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    So now you’re saying your source is useless and not to be trusted?
    
    I was citing that article for a particular reason: To show that the Greek word exists in the German language. Here, have another source.
    
    But your original assertion that the Nazis weren’t into Eugenics is still dead in the water.
    
    I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT. And you’re taking that baseless libel back, right fucking now. Don’t you fucking dare call me a Nazi fucking apologist I wouldn’t even be alive had they succeeded.
    
    I said they weren’t into the word, but preferred ones that were a) not Greek b) German and c) included “race” in some way.
    
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