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And so, when a white woman thinks about privilege, because she doesn't see her own race (since she is the societal "default") she only thinks about the ways men are given advantages over her.

Whereas the Black woman also sees the way that white women and men of all races are given advantages.

And a disabled, queer Black woman... you get the picture.

So "privileged relative to what?" is based entirely on the individual's experience and perspective 🙃

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@Nath @Zagorath

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tess@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
And this is obviously BAD because it means any time you talk to a straight, able-bodied white man who hasn't actively unpacked all of this about privilege, he's immediately going to think about all the ways he's disadvantaged relative to his own baseline, which is, what? Tall, handsome, rich white men.
When you mention privilege, he feels attacked because he immediately thinks of all the ways in which he lacks it, not the ways he has it.
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@Nath @Zagorath
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- tess@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This dovetails with the "I didn't notice the sexism therefore it didn't happen" problem - he's probably not tuned into the difficulties people lower on the pecking order experience at all.
  He has no realistic baseline.
  It doesn't excuse his ignorance, but it *does* explain why, from a political standpoint, starting the conversation with privilege *rather than* starting with the challenges faced by other people might be a poor approach, because it engenders defensiveness.
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  @Nath @Zagorath
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  - tess@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    ...and perhaps, none of us have a realistic baseline. I certainly don't have firsthand knowledge of every way to be marginalized!
    However, I still think "privilege" when applied correctly is a useful construct. I need to mull this over more in my head to figure out how and when, though. Like, what is the approach that is actually gonna change hearts and minds (or sway organizations struggling with this stuff)?
    Thanks for letting me ramble in your mentions.
    @Nath @Zagorath
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    Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Thanks for letting me ramble in your mentions.
    
    Unfortunately Lemmy doesn’t seem to have username mentions working quite as effectively as it should. So I didn’t get any notifications. But there was some interesting discussion between you two Mastadoners. Thanks for sharing!
    
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  - NilaJones@zeroes.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @tess @Nath @Zagorath
    Yes. The way I was first taught about privilege, begins with saying that everyone has some ways in which they are privileged in some ways in which they are not
    And a little exercise, where everyone in the room thinks about the ways in which they are not privileged. Because those always come to our mind more easily than the ways in which we are privileged!
    The ways in which we are, that is the second exercise
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- Selena@ivoor.eu ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @tess @Nath @Zagorath
  I have the impression that 'white cishet men' comparing themselves to 'rich hot white cishet men' is not the standard, but mostly something that happens in the pick-up artist scene.
  Most poor white cishet men seem to think more along the lines of 'how tf am I priviliged compared to someone like Rishi Sunak??'. They point at the successful women they know, at the successful black people. Their white privilege can't be all that powerful if these people seem to thrive.
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