StVO § 3 Absatz 2 says you’re not allowed to drive slower than necessary if it impedes traffic.
Traffic isn’t being impeded, you’re slowing down in an empty lane.
StVO § 4 Absatz 1 says you’re not allowed to thwart (is that the right word?) someone unless you’re forced to do. (And you got to keep your distance.)
Safe distance is being maintained, you’re slowing down in an empty lane.
Also, as I said before, you could have plenty of other reasons to pull into the inside lane and slow down after overtaking someone, letting them pass you in the middle lane. So one loop has plausible deniability, though 2 or more would be pretty obvious. Still, I feel like most police officers would just give you a talking to, rather than a ticket, they’d laugh and tell you not to do it again - if they’re even around to stop you.
They’ll crash into you because they literally won’t see you in front of them.
I’m not sure you fully understand the manuever:
- Overtake the middle lane driver in the outside lane, get a full 2-4 seconds in front of them.
- Move to the middle lane, maintaining distance in front.
- Move to the inside lane, with them still in the middle lane.
- Slow down gently, showing the brake lights and monitoring the car in the middle lane.
It’s not brake checking them, you’re in a completely separate lane. They have no reason or need to slow down. If I saw them on their phone when I first overtook them I probably would think of them as hazardous and just leave them alone, continuing on my way.
Generally I don’t get angry on the road. Like you, most of the time I’ll just flash my lights (I’d only honk if they did something particularly dangerous), wait until they’re out of the way then drive on. The loop thing is more of a bit of fun, and like I say in my experience most drivers realise it and pull in. I think in Germany there are far fewer drivers sat in the middle lane, and the ones that do are maybe more stubborn. In the UK so many people do it that a good portion of them are reasonable, just not properly trained/they have bad habits.
I actually learned the trick when I was kayaking at uni, it was one of their games for long journies. Another was stopping at a red light and shouting “ALL CHANGE” then everyone would get out of the car and change seats. It’s a bit naughty, there is some small risk, but generally it’s just a bit of fun. You can only listen to Venga Boys so much before you get bored.
However, I think the percentage of idiots in the population should be around the same.
Most likely.
And I’m basing a good amount of what I’m saying on rush hour, because sadly that’s often when you have to commute or get somewhere.
The thing with rush hour is you probably wouldn’t get the opportunity to loop around them. You need a good deal of clear space on the road to be able to complete the move, with one car sat in the middle lane and nothing in the inside lane for a long way. It basically has to be just the 2 of you for a few hundred metres.
They could also force people to do a first-aid course every now and then.
First aid would be good also. I’ve had some first aid training, and very soon after had the opportunity to use it - an old guy at a pub missed the bench and fell and hit his head. Everyone else was panicked, I got up, told someone to call an ambulance and managed to wake him by shouting his name, then his eyes sprung open. Sure, it’s nothing like fitting a tourniquet, but it was a funky experience, then when the paramedics came I faded into the background and got back to my pint. In general, more training is a good thing. In fact, coming back to driving, I’m aware that I’ve developed some bad habits (skills degrade with age) and this would be mitigated by ongoing training.
No need to apologise though, I can tell you’re being very well reasoned. Also, downvotes don’t really have any consequence (not like on reddit, where your comment would get hidden and you might get rate limited). It’s been good chatting with you.
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
Aaaaaah, No, I didn’t understand. I don’t know what I was thinking of, but now I get it… That should be perfectly alright. If you loop all the way around them on a 3-lane road, that’s just silly. But I don’t see any regulation prohibiting it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this happen in the wild, just on YouTube. But there aren’t many 3-lane roads where I live, anyways.
The rules I mentioned all specifically state that someone needs to follow or be impeded (even endangered). In that case you have your own lane and you’re relatively free to do whatever you like. It is mildly wrong, because you’re causing lots of overtakings both from you and the other person and they all have a tiny, but greater than 0 risk associated with them. And you do this because you’re guided by emotions. And you’re not supposed to do that while operating heavy machinery like a car.
But I’d say it’s probably on the same level of ‘dangerous’ like enjoying music while driving or talking to your passenger.
Oh, you got me confused a bit there. Seems we have different terms for the lanes. In my perspective the inside lane would be the one in the middle of the road, close to the central barrier. And the outside one at the verge where the emergency lane and the embarkment/vegetation is.
You’re right. We’ve already established that we probably have very different perspectives on driving. Most likely just due to population density. I’m like medium-old now. I drive for like 15-20 years at this point. And I live in the “Ruhrgebiet” which is a somewhat densely populated, metropolitan area. When I was about 20, I had a good amount of fun driving cars. We did lot’s of stupid stuff, including the “all change” game. Or do childish things and blast music and get pulled over by police at 2am. I think it’s only natural that you calm down a bit with age. But also things have changed in the last 15 years. There are lots more cars on the road. I don’t know exact numbers but I think rush hour starts 30-45mins earlier now and also lasts longer. And there’s a good amount of traffic during the day. We have some of the most well used motorways of the country here. And they’re mostly 2 lanes per direction, because there is city on either side and there was never any space to build a wider road. I mean we’ve always had traffic jams at rush hour. And a good amount of them, too. But I think driving has become more annoying within my lifetime.
However, I don’t think people have changed substantially. They still do the same mistakes. Can’t switch lanes properly, don’t do it the right way if there’s a lane blocked by construction (you’re supposed to wait for the last moment and then merge alternating, one car from each lane in turn). Or they’re breaking or overly switching lanes in a traffic jam and cause yet more people to slow down and make it worse. I don’t think this will ever change (unless artificial intelligence takes over). Seems to me like driving isn’t that easy and some people just aren’t up to it, intellectually. It’s certainly a skewed perspective, but it always feels like you meet all of them (stupid people) on the road.
Enough ranting from me. I also get them on the train. There’s often the situation that the train arrives at 7am at a main station, 400 people are trying to disembark but there is this one granny standing right in front of the door and trying to make her way in right now, against the flood of people. And they also like to use the moving staircase and then take one step off of it, stop and look around if they’re on the correct platform. All whilst the escalator pushes some more 50 commuters into their back. It doesn’t happen every day, but often enough so that it annoys me. Guess it’s better if you live in Japan. But people certainly have their own, individual struggles and annoyances of everyday lives in any society.
I think I’ve somehow accepted that. I’m not a proper stoic. And I won’t push over that old lady in front of the train door. But I might bump into you (mildly) if you’re younger and should know better. I’m certainly not taking care to get around and allow you to do it. In my personal opinion people should sometimes be able to feel when they’re in the wrong. All within reason, of course. I think - generally - the same thing applies to road traffic.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Hah, yeah, I had to be little bit ambiguous, I couldn’t just say “left, middle, right” for a 3-lane road, as that would mean different things for people from the US or Germany, and I’d probably just confuse myself trying to swap them!
Driving styles have definitely changed over the years. In the UK, they’ve introduced “Smart Motorways”, which basically have gantries every so often with speed limit signs over them. They can very the speed limit on the fly or handle lane closures or whatever. Some also have speed cameras, but not all that many in the end and you can easily spot them - even so, people have generally slowed down to the 70mph (~120kph) speed limit now. In some respects this is good, but you also end up with cars overtaking each other very slowly with very little difference in speed, clogging up the road.
What I find really interesting is how driving styles change even across different regions of the country. You can see people behaving differently in the north and south of the UK, or even in specific areas - down near Brighton there are a lot of 2-lane A-roads where people all queue up in the outside lane waiting on 2 lorries overtaking each other, leaving the inside lane completely empty. In Europe, like I mentioned, there’s this weird change when you cross the border from Germany into the Netherlands - not just the difference in speed (Netherlands seem to be very sharp on speeding, meanwhile Autobhan is generally unrestricted) but also drivers in the Netherlands pull in almost immediately, so quickly you might feel the need to slow down because they’re so close in front of you.