4 qt oil in a prius. I change my own oil every 8,000 miles, so it’s around $25 for me, but most people don’t, I suppose.
Electricity costs money. You skipped that, and for the millions and millions of people living in places like apartments, you can’t charge from home. Charge stations cost almost as much as gasoline, so that gets danged pricey and inconvenient. Poor option all the way around for those people.
Most vehicles have a 100,000 power train warranty, so that’s pretty irrelevant.
I already stated the failure of the batteries is closer to 15 years. That is the good batteries used today. I’m well aware of the lifespan of the lithium ion batteries used in today’s EV’s. They’re generally Lithium Cobalt Oxide or Lithium Nickle Cobalt Oxide and they can go 300,000 in theory. The “in theory” is that they won’t last that long if it’s spread over the course of 15 years and you keep them always close to fully charged or close to discharged. To go 300,000 miles you’ll have to not use any of the extra fast chargers and keep the capacity between 30 and 80 percent all the time. The batteries used have a lifespan of about 1400 charge cycles, if age is not a factor. You can go beyond that by keeping them at 30 to 80 percent, and it will be less than that if you use a level 3 charge station.
Also, look at tesla. There’s an entire industry that’s developed to keep their batteries up and going. They use barrel style batteries. There’s around 3,000 battery cells in each of their teslas. Some of those individual cells start going out quite quickly. The manufacturing of them isn’t flawless to the extent that 3,000 can all last over even 5 years. Tesla designed their system to be able to operate as the cells go bad, but it’s a nice slow deminishment of capacity and power. It’s turned into an entire business of tearing into those tesla batteries, finding and replacing out the bad battery cells, and then re-selling the packs as refurbished to people, which is a terrible idea, really. Replacing a hundred of the worse cells and calling good, when the other 2800 cells have a decade on them and will also fail soon is a short lived stop gap that takes advantage of people ignorance about what a remanufactured battery actually is.
Lastly; to your comment about toyota being “totally fine putting that junk in there”: LOL. You obviously don’t know much about batteries. NMH batteries have a longer duty cycle rate than any lithium batteries that have been developed. It’s why a little 75 pound battery in a non plug in lasts 14 years as it did before wearing out. Also, the “junk” batteries are Panasonics. Go check into it. They’re regarded as making the best mass produced batteries in the world.
Also, fyi: teslas 8 year battery warranty only kicks in if the battery has degraded below 70% capacity. So they think it’s OK that the car you bought to go 300 miles on a charge may only go like 225 miles after 8 years.
Then, finally, look what happens to a plug in when it’s winter and below freezing. An electrics range is tested and claimed when it’s around 70 degrees outside. That’s when your 300 mile electric can go 300 miles. If it’s 15 degrees out real world expectations put your range down to 60%. So your 300 miles goes to less than 200. That’s not just from capacity and discharge rates being effected. A large reason is running the all electric heater.
jmp242@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
I mean, you’re not counting the fact that the electricity isn’t free either - and KWH costs are just going up. It’s debatable how you ought to cost out the electrical work to put in a charger, and the charger itself. I really have no idea about the lifespan of the chargers, so it might not last a full 15 years out in the elements, it might last 50+ years.
Soggytoast@lemm.ee 6 months ago
The charger is just a few solenoids very simple device, and they don’t get switched with current flowing. So probably last forever, for wall mounted hard wired ones at least.
True I did not count cost of electricity, because it’s extremely hard to guess. Some places are .04$/kwh, some are .45/kwh, some are free.
What if you had free charging at work? Or apartment, or had solar, it could be completely free
jmp242@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
I mean, I guess work could also just give me a gas credit card and pay that, but I have my doubts that’ll become common. And yea, I left out solar because again, first it’s impractical for a very large number of people (they don’t have property to put up solar panels), and where it is possible it’s another tens of thousands. I’m not even sure I’d call that a capital investment as I see lifespans for the solar panels being near the lifespans of cars, or at most 2x if you take the 20ish year estimate and take 10 years as a car lifetime, both of which seem conservative to me. Then there’s the road taxes that as EVs become more popular, ICE will no longer subsidize completely via gas taxes, so that illusory savings will switch, and as they’re updating the laws and changing mediums, I bet that’s where local governments will find a way to increase that tax to make up for the impossibility of increasing the gas road tax due to politics - with the EV switch there’s enough smoke and mirrors to get that through.
I still believe EVs can be cheaper than ICE, but it’s going to work out to be far less than “advertised” by the early adopters who got all the subsidies, some unintentional.