Comment on Load forward tubes with our new Compla-ion charges and fire

• Rowsdower@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

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  • Stamets@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Same on both rewatching and not understanding why it’s regarded so poorly. Personally I rank this higher than DS9. Totally aware that most people are not going to share that opinion but I just like it better.

    Honestly a lot of the complaints about Voyager are just really dumb anyway. Like when people say they get sidetracked too much. The Pilot openly establishes that they’re gonna act like Starfleet the whole way home. That means exploring and seeking out new shit. Not to mention the fact that their investigations directly led to finding new technologies and shortcuts.

    I’ve heard people say that Voyager relies too much on either Alpha Quadrant aliens being involved or Earth/Starfleet stuff. That one really makes no sense in the rewatch considering there are like… 10 episodes in the first 4 seasons that involve either Earth, Starfleet or Alpha Quadrant aliens in some fashion. Even Kes. Kes! She gets whined about so much but rewatching it I don’t get it. She’s not bad in any way the writers just didn’t do anything with her, same with Chakotay. She’s still well rounded, interesting and well acted.

    Voyager is fantastic and I won’t tolerate the slander. Sorry that was a bit of a ramble.

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    • OurTragicUniverse@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Pretty sexism plays a huge role in why Voyager was disliked so much.

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      • teft@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        100% People were mad about a woman captain, a woman chief engineer, and Kes just being there. I remember reading some forums back then that were just awful. It made me sad because Voyager was my favorite show at the time since Tuvok and Tom Paris are both awesome. Them adding skinsuit of nine to pander to that subgroup of fans was just stupid. Don’t get me wrong, I love Seven and Jeri Ryan’s acting especially was amazing, they could have gave her a full uniform though. Fucking Rick Berman ruining everything he touches strikes again.

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      • Stamets@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah… That’s fair. People gave DS9 shit for having a black guy as lead. Gave Voyager shit for having a woman as lead. Had a fucking meltdown over the black woman as lead. Think we’d be over this shit by now.

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    • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I can clarify some of the Voyager hate, at least from the time. Part of it was absolutely the fact that women had such prominent roles in the show. The chuds have been around since the beginning of making and will probably be there at the end (in fact, they’ll probably be the cause of the end) and they hate anything that says other people are, well, individuals just like them.

      But my gripes with Voyager are as a TNG fanatic who was amused by DS9 but hoping they go back to Roddenberry’s Star Trek. Roddenberry used to impose weirdly strict rules to how problems in the future would be tackled, such as having a mom die and show how their child would grieve and grow in a utopia. By DS9 authoritarian ideals took hold and the plots became about intrigue instead of solving humanistic problems.

      By the time Voyager came out the sentiment that Trek was in freefall began. Paramount wanted to be Star Wars so now Star Fleet has rebels and warships that fight some underrepresented war all along the frontier with various one shot aliens who lack discernable variation. Trek quality had fallen from the imminently quotable TNG (darmak and jillad! Four lights!) to DS9 having good stories but lacking most quotability like TNG to Voyager having a good idea but lacking any Star Trek structure. It became Star Trek Fury Road as pivotal villains like the Borg are reduced to side characters and episodic hindrances. The fucking Borg took Picard. Wolf359 shattered Star Fleet. Then Voyager comes along and undermines all that by giving Voyager subspace tech that rivals The Travellers and solving the entire show with the ship equivalent of a weak fist fight. When once a cube was enough to guarantee a 2 part episode now it’s a mystery if a Voyager cube will make it to the end of the episode.

      Voyager gets grief because it weakened the threats in the galaxy and made weak ass villains to replace them (fuck the undine) instead of building in any existing threat.

      However, with the hindsight of 20 years it’s become evident that Voyager was the weightless fun before the freefall. Enterprise and Picard did a lot to sour the hope of many long time fans. The action in an episode is now the focal point instead of the culmination of a mystery that the crew has been trying to unravel. There is a rush to make a blend of Trek and Star Wars for a while now as media executives forget what makes their settings unique. Voyager was the first step in that direction.

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