Comment on Why cyclists should NOT get the same fines as motorists | Car Culture 6 - Motonormativity

• Tau@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What I found amusing was the bringing up of these ideas:

  • Breaking the speed limit is different to exceeding a safe speed for the conditions.
  • My self assessment of a particular area and my skill limit indicates there should be a higher speed limit.
  • My vehicle is designed to operate safely at higher speeds than the limit.
  • My vehicle is designed in a way that makes sticking to the lowest speed limits awkward.
  • Police are fining people huge amounts of money for exceeding a speed limit myself and many others think is too low.

  These are all very familiar to me as a driver and motorbike rider so that’s where the irony comes in - despite being a proponent of low speed limits he’s complaining about a low speed limit using similar arguments as everyone else now it affects him.

  For what it’s worth I agree with him that the speed limit there is too low, but I think the better response should be to raise it to something sensible (for what is apparently a busy shared path 20km/h seems a more reasonable limit) rather than either removing the limits or saying you can’t fine riders for exceeding them.

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  • Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The first two and last bullet points might apply to motor vehicles, but the third and fourth certainly do not. Anyone claiming that it’s not safe to operate a car at 30 km/h is just lying. There’s just no way to make that argument without deliberately saying something that you yourself know to be completely untrue.

    for what is apparently a busy shared path 20km/h seems a more reasonable limit) rather than either removing the limits or saying you can’t fine riders for exceeding them

    The thing is, the Goodwill Bridge, at the other end of Southbank, is 20 km/h. But it’s very notable that this is still inappropriate there. While 20 km/h is a reasonable speed for someone on an upright dutch-style bike riding on the flat, the Goodwill Bridge has rather steep inclines—and, more pertinently, declines. Staying under 20 km/h on a road bike on a fairly steep downhill is not much less ridiculous than the 10 km/h limit of the Kurilpa Bridge.

    But then it comes back to the simple matter of logistics. Cyclists aren’t required to have speedometers, and while some sports cyclists have them anyway, they usually rely on GPS which is much less accurate, especially around the inner city, than the direct-drive speedometers of a car. It doesn’t make any sense to enforce a rule where it’s impossible for the culprit to know they are in violation.

    The fact that this conversation is even taking place is a sign of some pretty severe car-brain on the part of people who support the speed limits. Speed limits aren’t in place for cars arbitrarily. They were created because cars are really, really dangerous. Cars kill hundreds of people per year in this country alone. Speed limits make sense, because they’re one of many tools to help keep that number from getting even higher. No evidence exists to support the need for speed limits on bikes. The only argument that is ever made essentially boils down to “cars have them, so bikes should too.”

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    • Tau@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The first two and last bullet points might apply to motor vehicles, but the third and fourth certainly do not

      They certainly do. It’s a fact that most cars and motorbikes are designed to be able to travel safely at speeds greater than our highway limits, and it can indeed be awkward to do low speed limits in a motor vehicle. For example my VTR runs faster than 20km/h at idle in first gear, which makes travelling in 20km/h zones annoying because I have to be on the clutch constantly. I could also claim that it’s unsafe to go that slow on a motorcycle due to instability, but really that’s just as true as saying 10km/h is too slow for stability on a bicycle - there is an element of truth in it but we both know it’s perfectly doable for anyone who’s been riding for a while.

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      • abhibeckert@beehaw.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I could also claim that it’s unsafe to go that slow on a motorcycle due to instability, but really that’s just as true as saying 10km/h is too slow for stability on a bicycle - there is an element of truth in it but we both know it’s perfectly doable for anyone who’s been riding for a while.

        To get a motorcycle license in QLD you are required to demonstrate your ability to ride safely at 5km/h.

        I’d argue if you can’t safely ride slow on a bicycle then maybe you should get off the bike and walk across the bridge.

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