That episode is great because I know we can debate this until we’re 100 comments deep, so respect to the writers for sure!
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. They’re dead, why should they get to consent?
The only reason to bring them back is sentimentality, Tuvix was more than adequate to be chief tactical officer, but he wasn’t Janeway’s friend of 20 years anymore.
There was a time where I think Tuvix would have agreed to the separation, but he had built enough of a life for himself that he didn’t want to die, and I don’t see how Tuvok and Neelix’s hypothetical rights supersede Tuvix’s very real request to live.
Would it have been fair to kill Tuvix 20 years later? As Janeway said, when did he go from being a transporter accident to an individual?
I don’t think dead is really a fair term. For one of implies a finality that clearly wasn’t the case. Even aside from that, when Spock was dead would it have been inappropriate to try and recover him? What if doing so would cost two more lives? What if he and someone else had been dead and recovering them would cost one life? The needs of the many and all that.
Your question is both fair and unfair. It’s like asking when someone’s death is no longer tragic. News of a child dying is generally referred to as a tragic event. Is it still when that person is 20?
Another factor to consider is how Tuvix’s life would progress after declining. There’s at least one obvious and one slightly less obvious bits that come immediately to mind. Imagine your among the crew and someone important to you was lost in such a transport accident. Can you honestly say you’d treat Tuvix the same after you found out he could have brought them back and declined to? Just from an ordinary person stand point that’s already hard, but lets add in the other part.
How many people aboard Voyager, or any other Starfleet vessel, wouldn’t lay down their life for two of their crew members, even if they didn’t really know them directly? It’s an even bigger issue for Voyager because they’re stranded. After everything happens if it comes to a desperate situation, would you be sure Tuvix would do the same for you, or do you think you might worry if he’d be looking out just for himself. I’m not claiming such a thing is right or wrong, but it is human (and many other races) behavior. It’s entirely possible Tuvix would have been spared only to be a pariah. At what point is it not worth it?
I do think they were really dead. The crew got a one time opportunity to make a trade and they took it, but they ignored the life they were trading away. Tuvix was always an individual I think, but it becomes more wrong to kill him the longer you let him live.
I can definitely see Tuvix being around as being traumatic. Personally, I couldn’t kill Tuvix and I think it was the wrong choice. I think even if he reminded people of their loss many would get passed it with time. A month isn’t an enough time to deal with this type of grief.
But, isolated and marooned far from home, with new enemies appearing seemingly around every corner and a small crew, you do have to sacrifice philosophical purity to survive.
I can respect your position. Even if it is wrong :)
In more seriousness though I think we’re about as close to agreeing as we’ll get. Even if a third of the crew reacted to him as I suggested long term it’s worth being part of the consideration.
It’s always nice to have a respectful disagreement. Moreso on the Internet.
EmergMemeHologram@startrek.website 1 year ago
That episode is great because I know we can debate this until we’re 100 comments deep, so respect to the writers for sure!
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. They’re dead, why should they get to consent?
The only reason to bring them back is sentimentality, Tuvix was more than adequate to be chief tactical officer, but he wasn’t Janeway’s friend of 20 years anymore.
There was a time where I think Tuvix would have agreed to the separation, but he had built enough of a life for himself that he didn’t want to die, and I don’t see how Tuvok and Neelix’s hypothetical rights supersede Tuvix’s very real request to live.
Would it have been fair to kill Tuvix 20 years later? As Janeway said, when did he go from being a transporter accident to an individual?
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
Totally agree on credit to the writers.
I don’t think dead is really a fair term. For one of implies a finality that clearly wasn’t the case. Even aside from that, when Spock was dead would it have been inappropriate to try and recover him? What if doing so would cost two more lives? What if he and someone else had been dead and recovering them would cost one life? The needs of the many and all that.
Your question is both fair and unfair. It’s like asking when someone’s death is no longer tragic. News of a child dying is generally referred to as a tragic event. Is it still when that person is 20?
Another factor to consider is how Tuvix’s life would progress after declining. There’s at least one obvious and one slightly less obvious bits that come immediately to mind. Imagine your among the crew and someone important to you was lost in such a transport accident. Can you honestly say you’d treat Tuvix the same after you found out he could have brought them back and declined to? Just from an ordinary person stand point that’s already hard, but lets add in the other part.
How many people aboard Voyager, or any other Starfleet vessel, wouldn’t lay down their life for two of their crew members, even if they didn’t really know them directly? It’s an even bigger issue for Voyager because they’re stranded. After everything happens if it comes to a desperate situation, would you be sure Tuvix would do the same for you, or do you think you might worry if he’d be looking out just for himself. I’m not claiming such a thing is right or wrong, but it is human (and many other races) behavior. It’s entirely possible Tuvix would have been spared only to be a pariah. At what point is it not worth it?
EmergMemeHologram@startrek.website 1 year ago
I do think they were really dead. The crew got a one time opportunity to make a trade and they took it, but they ignored the life they were trading away. Tuvix was always an individual I think, but it becomes more wrong to kill him the longer you let him live.
I can definitely see Tuvix being around as being traumatic. Personally, I couldn’t kill Tuvix and I think it was the wrong choice. I think even if he reminded people of their loss many would get passed it with time. A month isn’t an enough time to deal with this type of grief.
But, isolated and marooned far from home, with new enemies appearing seemingly around every corner and a small crew, you do have to sacrifice philosophical purity to survive.
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
I can respect your position. Even if it is wrong :)
In more seriousness though I think we’re about as close to agreeing as we’ll get. Even if a third of the crew reacted to him as I suggested long term it’s worth being part of the consideration.
It’s always nice to have a respectful disagreement. Moreso on the Internet.