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Comment on China’s new language law to criminalise advocacy of ethnic minority rights

BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

Belgium has dutch, french and german as its official langauges, each region teachin in the region’s langauge.

Yes, and Brussels have multiple because of their unique governing system. It’s an exception not the rule.

Minority language communities have their own full school systems.

I can’t verify that. There are language schools, but I can’t find any details about full education being available in a minority langauge.

Finland’s nationa languages are finnish and swedish; swedish-natives have the legal right to FULL education in their native tongue.

Again mostly an exception not the rule. Due to their similar language they are mostly bilingual and can relatively easily understand each other. And bilingualism is written in the constitution. Doesn’t extend to other minorities.

Spain - basque, catalan, galician. Similar shit.

Spanish is the only official language in Spain, only autonomous regions are allowed to have their own official languages per the constitution.

Switzerland - german, french, italian and romansh - all national languages.

Forgot about that one and why I said “most”. One of few countries that does allow uncoditional education in multiple languages.

Even the french, who go crazy about their language shit, still have breton and basque language schools.

Only French is an official language and while they allow foreign language schools most of them are bilingual as they still need to learn French to pass exams. No full education in foreign language.

Romania, hungarians being the largest minority, there’s lots of hungarian-focused schools. German as well. Ukrainian, serbian, slovak, turkish.

Another exception and probably the most tolerant country as by law each minority that effectively can generate full classrooms are entitled to mother-tongue education.

Uk - welsh, gaelic, and irish.

Again limited to self-governing regions, England only allows British English.

Sweden - sami, finnish, romani and yiddish.

Sami is only allowed in the Sami administrative area and Finnish have the same status as Swedish in Finland due to language similarities. As far as I know no other language offers full education, but it is technically allowed under the law for recognized minority languages. You still need Swedish to pass exams.

Italy - german, french and slovenian.

Their constitution allows autonomous regions to have co-official language but only German is available for full education as far as I know.

I’ll admit I overstated the situation in Europe as due to past imperialism there are some legacy protections and exceptions, but generally they are targeted and doesn’t apply to all minorities. Out of your examples only 3 have laws that offer universal right in mother-tongue language education.

And China is no different in that respect, as Hong Kong special administrative region allows full education in English.

To correct myself, about half the Europe only allows single national language for full education, while other half have either very limited execptions or full minority language protections in their constitutions. There is a strong push to encourage foreign languages as secondary and in the EU it’s even managed by law that at least one foreign language must be taught as secondary at some point in the education cycle.

Thank you for the comment as it made me do more research and learn some new things.

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mr_manager@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
You just listed like eight examples of minority languages being protected in Europe. What is the threshold you’re searching for here to prove that minority language and culture are, at least sometimes, treated differently in Europe? I’m in no way suggesting that these issues are being dealt with perfectly anywhere in the world, or that Europe doesn’t have plenty of examples of minority populations being mistreated, but I think it’s kind of strange to argue that China isn’t engaging in some form of ethnic cleansing. Especially when it comes to Tibet and the Uyghur people. The Chinese government is using policies like this to intentionally suppress the culture and language of minority populations.

Both things can be true; Europe has an imperfect record when it comes to treatment of ethnic minorities, and China is targeting certain ethnic minority populations under the guise of “assimilation”.

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- BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨48⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  
  <…> I think it’s kind of strange to argue that China isn’t engaging in some form of ethnic cleansing.
  
  Never said that. Not even implied it. I literally said “That is fucked. Your minority status should never be used to exclude you from exercising all your rights.”.
  
  Especially when it comes to Tibet and the Uyghur people. The Chinese government is using policies like this to intentionally suppress the culture and language of minority populations.
  
  It’s well established that China does repress these minorities.
  
  news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932 ohchr.org/…/un-experts-alarmed-reports-forced-lab…
  
  My point was that wanting your population to all be able to speak the same national language is not unreasonable where I directly quoted the article stating that the minority language could still be used as secondary. Replace China with any other country and I would still support that statement.
  
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dominic.borcea@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

There are language schools, but I can’t find any details about full education being available in a minority langauge.

I mean… Belgium literally has three different full-fledged education systems in flemish, french and german; all of them with their own curricula, schools, universities, etc.

Due to their similar language they are mostly bilingual and can relatively easily understand each other.

This is just flat out wrong??? Finnish and swedish are not similar languages and they’re not mutually understandable. A finnish speaker cannot understand a swedish speaker. Swedish is a germanic language, Finnish is blood uralic, its not even part of the indo-european family. Perkele, mita vittua?!
Did you just go “oh, they’re both in the north, they sound similar to me sooooooooooooooo”

Spanish is the only official language in Spain, only autonomous regions are allowed to have their own official languages per the constitution.

By definition its not the ONLY official language if areas in the country have extra official languages.
The very constitution of the country allows for co-official languages.

And overall it makes sense that these minority-language schools are present only in particular regions. Why would you want to have schools for language X when there’s not a consistent minority that speaks language X in that area in the first place? Complete waste of resources.
And naturally you can’t have schools for every minority, especially with modern-day migration, but its not economically feasible to have a school where only 3 kids can attend.
If would’ve just said that not every minority in Europe gets its school, I would’ve agreed. That much is clear. But that is a very different point from the one initially made.
The dominant model in Europe is certainly not one similar to the one China is pursuing, in fact I’d argue that there’s few EU member states that come close to that. And the ones that spring to mind are the Baltics - Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia - which is an entirely different bag of chips and a whole conversation to be had about how right or wrong they are to pursue something like that in their present geopolitical context.

and Finnish have the same status as Swedish in Finland due to language similarities

Please, stop saying that. The two languages are not similar. That’s not the reason for their status. Its because Swedish imperialism. They occupied Finland for centuries. To help you better understand, percentage-wise the similarity between Swedish and Finnish is CLOSE TO 0% (ZERO)

There is a strong push to encourage foreign languages as secondary

Strong push? I don’t agree with this framing. It makes it seem like its just beginning, like only now we’re moving in that direction. When the reality is that its completely normalized across most if not all EU member states.
Teaching at least one foreign language is a long-term standard of the education system of EU states.

In 2023, 89% of pupils in upper secondary education in the EU were learning English as a foreign language: this share was 96% in general programmes and 80% in vocational programmes.

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