Comment on I'm with Kira

• Steve@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Projection

  You never offered any information. What evidence suggests I’m not open to it?

  In face the closest thing to an argument against the idea that anyone made, is that it doesn’t scale well. Which is of course true. But this is about the morality of ways to deal with bigots, not the practically.

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  • teuast@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well, I’m glad you at least recognize that your solution to bigotry is not practical. I agree that it’s a moral ideal, but morality to my mind depends at least as much on effect as intention, which is where practicality comes in, and the fact that showing “unearned compassion” to bigots, at least in the way I typically seem to see that interpreted, just emboldens them and makes life worse for everyone else. The most extreme example of this is, as alluded to, Chamberlain’s appeasement of Hitler, but we see the same thing play out on a smaller scale frequently.

    Most people who discuss morality with any frequency will probably tell you that whether or not you know the outcome of an action ahead of time does impact its morality. So I would argue, because we know that showing bigots “unearned compassion” rather than societally refusing to tolerate their behavior invariably has a net negative impact on those who are the targets of their bigotry, that would render it not the moral ideal we might like it to be.

    Please observe the paradox of tolerance.

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    • Steve@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I suppose I’m marking a difference between tolerating bigots, and tolerating bigotry. Respecting and accepting people with bigoted ideas, is very different from respecting and accepting the ideas themselves. Part of being a friend, is point out when that friend is being dick. That would still hold true here.

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      • Cabrio@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I see your problem.

        You don’t believe people when they tell you who they are. You imagine their actions and their beliefs to be separate from the individual even though they are the beliefs and actions of the individual.

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  • Cabrio@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You were never apart from society so you are bound by the social contract by default, failure to uphold the social contract will result in the following violence: being put in the corner, being told ‘no’, spanking, detention, suspension, loss of employment, physical violence, police arrest, incarceration, garnishing of wages, loss of access to social services, etc.

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    • Steve@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That’s an argument to uphold the analogy of a social contract. Basically arguing it’s it fine to be born into a contract you had no choice in. However, that same logic can be used to justify all sorts of terrible things. It goes all the way back to the bible and earlier: Holding the child responsible for the sins of their father.

      It doesn’t however directly address my claim of moral high ground, for using what I call unearned compassion, to win over bigots.

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      • Cabrio@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        This isn’t an argument, it’s a fact. The only way to not be part of the social contract is to remove yourself from society, including all of societies infrastructure.

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