Comment

Comment on US-led Gaza plan to force Palestinians into dystopian re-education camp leaked

The question was why there’s not more support by Arabs and I gave an answer based in historical fact. I even provided a link to an interview with a very respected Arab leader making similar remarks.

Palestinians deserve a dignified life in prosperity and a future. Their political leadership and allies have failed the Palestinian people repeatedly.

Palestinians are mostly used as political pawns and symbols by their supporters abroad. Improving the actual lives of Palestinians is an afterthought. Fighting Israel takes precedent over fighting for Palestinians.

Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, the Palestinian authority police state, Hamas’ brutal Islamist regime, kept as eternal refugees by Arab host countries their grandparents were born in. UNRWA‘s mission and definition of refugee is markedly different from the UNHCR, keeping Palestinians stateless and without rights. Millions of people fled in the 1940s around the world. They found new homes, settled elsewhere, built lives, and their grandchildren live a good life. Palestinians are the only refugees this future was denied.

Western pro Palestine activists repeat the falsehoods and incitement of Hamas. Even there the voices of moderate Palestinians are shouted down and marginalized. Palestinians don’t have free speech under the PA nor Hamas. Their supporters in the west call for more violence (intifada) and war (destroy Israel). That path of failure has caused immense suffering for Palestinians.

Palestinians are in a terrible situation and have the worst supporters. It’s heartbreaking, really. They deserve better.

source

Sort:hotnew top

mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You purposely conflate Arab leaders with Arab population . The majority of the arab population support Palestine . You blame everything on “terrorist” organization to justify leaders inactions when we all know that the reason they no longer care is that the usa bought it support with military and economical support. Israel openly allude that that they control the open and closing of thee rafah border. Morsi was easing up the border control and that’s the reason the usa organized a coup to oust him

About 77% of respondents named the United States and Israel as the biggest threat to the security and stability of the region.

See it is not khamas or khizbollah who are considered the biggest threat

Funny how you also omit the atrocities made by Israeli backed militant in Lebanon civil war

call for more violence (intifada) and war (destroy Israel)

The intifada was a Palestinian rights protest that started peacefully than Israel start shooting people. Israel is fully responsible for all the violent on both side that happened afterwar.

And by war we mean fighting for liberation of Palestine then create either a two state or one state where everybody live peacefully .

Israel is the one currently destroying everything and trying to exterminate Palestinians why don’t you admit it instead of both siding. Why can’t you say simple that you support after the liberation of Palestine to held accountable war criminals from both side

source
- Limerance@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Israel does plenty of bad things including to Palestinians.
  
  However the political reality and history of the region is more complex than “Israel evil”.
  
  Of course the Arab public blames the USA and Israel for everything bad. You can also look up what conspiracy theories are popular in the Arab world and you will see how much validity public opinion has. Blaming Israel and the USA (and the west) for every failure has been a goto for political and religious leaders for more than a hundred years. It’s the whole basis of Muslim brother type Islamism for example.
  
  Let’s look at some facts though. Islamists and secular dictators in the region have killed far more people than Israel.
  
  Let’s look at a different poll by PCPSR on Palestinians.
  
  When asked if Hamas had committed the atrocities seen in the videos shown by international media displaying acts or atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians, such as killing women and children in their homes. The overwhelming majority (86%) said it did not commit such atrocities, and only 10% said it did.
  
  source
  - mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Israel is the occupier it do bad things because the state has a supremacist ideology and want all Palestinians expulsed or killed . Occupied people do atrocities as an retaliation to occupations . Once Palestinians are liberated they will live peacefully with their Israelis
    
    The political reality and history of the region is as simple as Israel is evil based on facts I mentioned in the other comment
    
    Let’s look at some facts though. Islamists and secular dictators in the region have killed far more people than Israel. The same dictators who are abandoning Palestinians and are improving their relation with Israel. Israel is trying to normalize with El jolani which is an islamists. You are a bad faith and hypocritical person who try to justify occupation , settler colonialism and genocide
    
    When asked if Hamas had committed the atrocities seen in the videos shown by international media displaying acts or atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians, such as killing women and children in their homes. The overwhelming majority (86%) said it did not commit such atrocities, and only 10% said it did.
    
    That’s what happen when you are oppressed for 80 goddamn year where israel is continuing the theft of land and want to exterminate Palestinians . Netanyahu said it pretty clearly there will never be a Palestinian state because the land is our and he compared Palestinians to Amalek there is no more clear intention of extermination not just genocide than that even Hitler was using better euphemism to deflect from the fact that he wanted to exterminate jews
    
    Of course the Arab public blames the USA and Israel for everything bad. You can also look up what conspiracy theories are popular in the Arab world and you will see how much validity public opinion has. Blaming Israel and the USA (and the west) for every failure has been a goto for political and religious leaders for more than a hundred years. It’s the whole basis of Muslim brother type Islamism for example.
    
    You are just a racist . Of course arabs did kill ton of people in history but it is nothing compared to the west and europe . The USA and Israel is to blame from settler colonialism and genocide . If we talk about who is the most responsible of death of people in history it is Europe. British in India alone are responsible for about 60 to 100 millions death. World war 1 and 2 happened because of European imperialist and colonialism ideology . Nazis was also Europeans. Almost every western intervention resulted to mass muder or civil wars
    
    If you want the conspiracy to be limited you should ask for unconditional end of the occupation . Yo can’t be really anti islamists while at the same time supporting Jewish supremacy which do not represent all jews
    
    At the end of the day there is nothing that justify settler colonialism and genocide that Israel is doing
    
    source
  - mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Then the PLO, who want languishing in exile, was brought in by Israel in a chance to seek a peaceful settlement. Oslo was a step in the right direction. The peace deals were rejected by Arafat.
    
    Why do you always lie ? Arafat accepted Oslo accords, recognized Israel and rejected armed resistance. He rejected Camp David because all Palestinians rights given by international laws was not addressed . Blaming Arafat is like blaming Zelensky for refusing to give up lands to Russia .
    
    Even former Israeli prime minister admitted camp David was a bad deal . If I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well - SHLOMO BEN-AMI
    
    source
    Limerance@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    What Palestinian rights by international law do you mean? UNSC resolution 242 doesn’t grant the so called „right of return“ to all descendants of Palestinians for example.
    
    There were numerous rejections of peace deals by Palestinians and Arabs. Peel commission, UN Portion Plan of 1948, Khartoum resolution, Camp David, Taba, and others.
    
    Yes, Arafat accepted Oslo. It was his big comeback from exile in Tunis snd irrelevance.
    
    The Oslo accords were the only time something positive was achieved for Palestinians. Yes, they were limited, but also only meant to provide a transition for a few years.
    
    The reasons Arafat and later Abbas didn’t agree to one of the deals offered over the years were fear of losing power and waiting for a better offer down the line. The better offer came, but internal Palestinian political opposition (Hamas) grew stronger.
    
    The outcome was an ever worsening condition for Palestinians in many ways. Being uncompromising has cost them dearly.
    
    Israel should end the occupation of the West Bank and settlements. However they have legitimate security interests. Israel needs a neighbor that agrees to peace and non aggression. Leaving unilaterally hasn’t worked in Gaza. At the moment Israelis don‘t see a chance for this. October 7th has diminished the small peace camp further.
    
    Palestinian political leadership has been deeply divided for decades now. There’s no good vision, only eternal violent struggle and uncompromising demands. You have to understand that for many Palestinians „the occupation“ means all of Israel, not just West Bank and Gaza. This is a fight they have been losing for 100 years and will continue to do so. Coexistence is the only way forward.
    
    More Palestinians have died in Gaza, than all deaths combined (including Israel‘s) over the last 100 years before. Gaza had an operational international airport with construction of a harbor underway, was ruled by Palestinians, no IDF presence in the late 1990s. Arafat decided to throw all that away when he launched the second intifada. Just because he wasn’t able to compromise and sell that to his people.
    
    The comparison to Ukraine and Zelenskyy is weak because the situation is so different. Ukraine hasn’t lost the war yet, but is holding on. For how many years that’s worth doing is a good question.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
zeezee@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

a very respected Arab leader

you mean the guy who was caught taking £1bn in bribes from BAE for the Al-Yamamah arms deal? the guy who reportedly funded Fatah al-Islam terrorists in Lebanon? the saudi intelligence chief nicknamed “Bandar Bush” because he was so deep in the pockets of the American war machine? that’s your credible source on Palestinian leadership failures?

sorry I don’t have time to go point by point why you’ve presented a very one sided story that conveniently omits the main reason why Arab states feel reluctant to support the Palestinians - the fact they’ll have to go against the US empire and its buddies which economically and militarily outcompete them - your posturing around how its the Palestinian authorities fault they can’t have allies under an active occupation turned genocide just shrugs away responsibility from the ones that have real power onto those that have extremely limited options of resistance.

source
- Limerance@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You are forgetting 1948, 67, 73 when lots of Arab countries waged large scale war against Israel. There was even a huge oil embargo in the 1970s by Arabs against the West.
  
  Of course having a good relationship to the US is important to many countries. It’s very beneficial to them. However those governments opposed to the US aren’t particularly great for their population either.
  
  There’s certainly no lack of bad regimes in the Middle East.
  
  Regarding Prince Bandar and Saudi policies in the region. Saddam’s Iraq became an enemy with his invasion of Kuwait. Iraq had been a regional rival to the Saudis even back to the time it had a Hashemite king. The Hashemite and Saudi clans are old rivals for power in the region. Saudis have their own interests in the region. Iran is a regional rival for example and their Islamist ideology a direct threat to the kingdom. Yes, Saudis have played some stupid games with spreading Wahhabism and supporting Islamists militias against other governments in the region. Of course the Saudis prioritize their own interests above the Palestinian cause. They have been a big supporter historically both financially and politically.
  
  I really recommend you watch the interview to hear another perspective and his personal interactions with Arafat during the peace process.
  
  source
  - mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion
    
    No wonder arabs was trying to stop the occupation plan from the start
    
    source
    Limerance@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Arab leaders were promising massacres and ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Palestine in the wake of the war. “Throw them back int the sea.”
    
    Jews in nascent Israel at that time was mostly refugees from Europe, but also Yemen for example. They didn’t have any other place to go to. Nobody wanted them. For them it was fight for their lives or be killed.
    
    Remember that Jews were ethnically cleansed from the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Jerusalem had been majority Jewish for decades and some of the oldest Jewish quarters were in the Eastern part.
    
    After the war was won by Israel. 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries and mostly went to Israel. Adding more Jews to the land with no other place to go to.
    
    It’s a pretty shit situation overall and was from the beginning.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments