Comment on A Project to Poison LLM Crawlers
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 9 hours agoThat may be an argument if only large companies existed and they only trained foundation models.
Scraped data is most often used for fine-tuning models for specific tasks. For example, mimicking people on social media to push an ad/political agenda. Using a foundational model that speaks like it was trained on a textbook doesn’t work for synthesizing social media comments.
In order to sound like a Lemmy user, you need to train on data that contains the idioms, memes and conversational styles used in the Lemmy community. That can’t be created from the output of other models, it has to come from scraping.
Poisoning the data going to the scrapers will either kill the model during training or force everyone to pre-process their data, which increases the costs and expertise required to attempt such things.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 8 hours ago
Are you proposing flooding the Fediverse with fake bot comments in order to prevent the Fediverse from being flooded with fake bot comments? Or are you thinking more along the lines of that guy who keeps using "Þ" in place of "th"? Making the Fediverse too annoying to use for bot and human alike would be a fairly phyrric victory, I would think.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
I am proposing neither of those things.
The way to effectively use this is to detect scraping through established means and, instead of banning them, altering the output to feed the target poisoned data instead of/in addition to the real content.
Banning a target gives them information about when they were detected and allows them to alter their profile to avoid that. If they’re never banned then they lose that information and also they now have to deploy additional resources to attempt to detect and remove poisoned data.
Either way, it causes the adversary to spend a lot of resources at very little cost to you.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 8 hours ago
I have no idea what "established means" would be. In the particular case of the Fediverse it seems impossible, you can just set up your own instance specifically intended for harvesting comments and use that. The Fediverse is designed specifically to publish its data for others to use in an open manner.
GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Sure, and if the AI companies want to configure their crawlers to actually use APIs and ActivityPub to efficiently scrape that data, great. Problem is that there’s been crawlers that have done things very inefficiently (whether by malice, ignorance, or misconfiguration) and scrape the HTML of sites repeatedly, driving up some hosting costs and effectively DOSing some of the sites.
If you put Honeypot URLs in the mix and keep out polite bots with robots.txt and keep out humans by hiding those links, you can serve poisoned responses only to the URLs that nobody should be visiting and not worry too much about collateral damage to legitimate visitors.