Comment on Room temperature IQ is a far bigger insult in Europe than America.
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks agoGiven that IQ is profoundly racist and white people score much higher than any other race, I very much doubt it’d ever be used as a hit list.
Maybe a shit list.
shneancy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
to those downvoting this comment -
your IQ test results might as well be your zip code
for a proper explanation, check out Bell Curve by Shaun
for a personal interpretation & in large part summary of the above material:
IQ tests are not a general smartness tests, that is impossible to measure. IQ testes measure your ability to solve logic puzzles, and that supposedly measures your logic itself (at least the tests that have no cultural bits, the ones that include cultures also have some testing of your memory based largely on your country’s school curriculum. more on why that’s a problem later)
can someone be naturally amazing at logic? of course, they can, but that skill needs to be nurtured, or at least allowed to flurish. and this is supposed to happen in schools.
now what happens when a person with the potential to score high in an IQ test doesn’t enjoy the privilege of peaceful learning? what happens when their family life is difficult? what happens when during their schooling years they have to focus on surviving, instead of learning and nurturing their skills? well, they score lower, of course. their potential doesn’t disappear, but it gets used in a different direction, to help them survive in life. and logic puzzles don’t play a big role in survival so that particular skill is not tended to and therefore doesn’t develop as well as it could in ideal circumstances.
now let’s look at racism. we’re not talking about day to day racism, though that also plays a part, but institutionalised racism - the one that keeps pushing minorities into poverty, and keeps them there harder than white people, because as we know, poverty is a trap that’s difficult to get out of even for those not pushed into it with institutional racism.
add the two together - IQ tests measure your logic puzzle solving skills, which develop only if you have access to decent schools & you’re allowed to learn without interruptions, without having to worry for yourself or your family. institutionalised racism pushes minorities into poverty, which means they lose access to good schooling, and have to worry for themselves and their families from an early age.
this in turn results in minorities scoring lower on those tests, but not because they are stupid, but because their intelligence has to be used for surviving, and they are not allowed to comfortably indulge in solving logic puzzles to develop the skills that IQ tests look at to “measure intelligence”
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
A lot of what you’re describing isn’t related to IQ or IQ tests. What I think you may be referring to are some IQ test scams from facebook. Not exactly sure.
First of all, while I personally can’t definitely judge whether IQ is a perfectly accurate measure of intelligence or not, it is one of the best documented and fundamental parts of psychology. It’s covered in great detail in any psychology textbook or class.
There are different types of intelligence, meaning five people with the exact same IQ score may or may not have similar capabilities. Some are great at ‘logic puzzles’, while others excel at more literary puzzles such as debates. Fundamentally pretty much the same concept, but for one reason or another there’s a divide there. It does not appear to be directly influenced by personal background or upbringing.
IQ tests are supposed to be designed in a way that is accessible to everyone, regardless of ethnicity or culture. That’s why they usually consist of very simple concepts, such as general shapes. A square is a square, whether you’re from Europe or Africa, and doesn’t require any significant knowledge to be distinguished from a circle. If a test relies on any outside knowledge (e.g., you need to know what a cat is vs what a dog is) - it’s not an IQ test, or it’s a very poor one.
The core issue here is not about ‘nurturing skills’, because as countless studies have shown, it does not appear at all possible to raise your IQ (i.e. become more intelligent). All attempts at training people to get more intelligent either brought no results, or turned out to be false.
What’s happening in the situation you described is mostly access to healthy food, healthcare, etc. The biggest predictors of IQ are general health and nourishment. This is basically why poor people score lower. A brain can only utilize all of its capabilities when it’s supplied with sufficient nutrients and is not significantly impaired by sickness.
Of course, as many different traits, IQ can and is being used for eugenics. Basically what you said about poorer groups. It’s nothing inherently to do with IQ itself, but the result is the same.
Also, as already mentioned by some commenters, Mensa is just a degenerate group of soft, wannabe Nazis.
shneancy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
fair points Mr AssTits, but there’s one thing i’ll nitpick - if you are always given a culturally neutral test - how are you supposed to check the various types of intelligence, when the culturally neutral test is just a bunch of logic puzzles, it only tests for logic. it’s impossible to test for debate ability, or musical abilities, or any other abilities with culturally neutral methods. even for a debate skill you need linguistic skills and langauges are heavily influenced by cultures they function in.
i took an IQ test with a licensed psychologist, WAIS for adults to be specific, and it was indeed based on the polish school curriculum. it supposedly measured 3 metrics: logic, language, emotion (not exact names of those metrics, forgot those). logic was just logic puzzles & memorising stuff, langauge was word definitions, and i assume an analysis of how i expressed myself, and emotion was honestly dumb and included sayings and idioms which??? i’m neurodivergent i get these wrong all the time, but i can read emotions and behave maturely quite well. then an average of these was taken and presented as my general IQ
i came out of there thinking how it’d be impossible for me to score well if i didn’t have the privilege of attending good schools, or just being lucky (there was a section of culturally important figures, one of whom was Maria Skłodowka-Curie who also happened to be a patron of my primary school so, yeah i kinda knew a lot about her)
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The most common (and pretty much the only) tests don’t test any specific type of intelligence, since it’s considerably more difficult. For that kind of more in-depth examination you probably need to visit a psychologist, like you did.
As for the test you took itself, I can’t really say too much about it. It might have been personalized for you. So someone with worse access to education may receive an entirely different test. I think this is what should happen, after a reasonably thorough interview.
Hard to say precisely, and this may be beyond the scope of my current knowledge. I took psychology classes and read some books, both of which covered IQ basics in great detail, but didn’t go into specialized tests. What you’re saying is quite interesting, so I may read up on that or ask my psychiatrist.
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
People can downvote my posts all they like, I can’t see them because my instance doesn’t have downvotes.
shneancy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
it was at -1 when i saw it, which is what prompted me to attempt to give a step by step process leading to the conclusion you gave as it seemed to me folks just lacked context
Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Nuance? On the Internet? How optimistic :)