I think you’re more of a patriot than you realize. A patriot loves their country for what it does and criticizes it when it does things they don’t like, while a nationalist loves their country regardless of what it does and criticizes those who want to change it.
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squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 week agoTbh, I have to disagree here.
Even in its best form, patriotism is about being proud of things you did nothing to contribute to and about tribalism and exclusion of others (namely people from places where you don’t live).
In my city we have great public transport, great public healthcare, strong worker protection laws, a large public housing sector that keeps rents low, good free education, pretty old buildings, lots of nice parks and many other great things that I like.
I did nothing to contribute to these things except of voting every few years. It’s not my achievement that these things exist, so pride would be misplaced.
I also know that all it takes for these things to vanish is the wrong people getting elected once or twice, and if that were to happen, the city could quickly be turned from a great place to live to a terrible place. It has happened before, specifically between 1933 and 1945, but also from 1809 to 1848 and 1914 to 1923.
Being patriotic would elevating my city and/or country to something more than it is: from a place to live to a place to worship or something like that, and it would mean I would have to support things that cannot be reasonably supported.
It’s totally ok to like the good things you have. It’s also totally ok to get behind good causes and further them. But it’s weird to “love” a place and bind yourself to it even if it goes bad.
pastaq@lemmy.world 6 days ago
squaresinger@lemmy.world 6 days ago
That’s pure projection. I don’t love my country and it would be stupid to have romantic feelings toward a made-up thing that doesn’t exist.
I live here because it’s a good place to live. If the country goes to shit, I move on.
Do you feel patriotic love towards the supermarket you shop at? Or do you go there because it’s currently the place where you get the best deal? Do you love your petrol station? Do you love the highway or train you use to get to work?
Maybe it’s the american weirdness that you guys don’t value love so that you mistake thinking that somethig is ok is automatically deep love or something weird.
Patriotism has exactly on purpose: to keep idiots in line and stop them from thinking.
pastaq@lemmy.world 5 days ago
I live here because it’s a good place to live. If the country goes to shit, I move on.
If something negative starts happening in my community I work to fix or resist it, so it starts a good place to live. Instead of selfishly running away I work hard for the coming good. That’s what patriotism is about. You sound like someone who wants to reap the benefits of a good society without doing the work to make one.
This is also an absurdly privileged take. Very few people have the economic means or are capable of handling the emotional impact of moving from their family.
Do you feel patriotic love towards the supermarket you shop at? Or do you go there because it’s currently the place where you get the best deal? Do you love your petrol station? Do you love the highway or train you use to get to work?
This is an absurd strawman. I care about the people who work in those places, and that those places are effective and equitable.
Maybe it’s the american weirdness that you guys don’t value love so that you mistake thinking that somethig is ok is automatically deep love or something weird.
Inflammatory rhetoric from someone who clearly doesn’t actually know Americans.
Patriotism has exactly on purpose: to keep idiots in line and stop them from thinking.
Considering you can’t stop conflating patriotism and nationalism in your responses, perhaps you should be a little more careful of who you call an idiot.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Patriotism is nationalism for people who say “I’m not a racist, but”.
DandomRude@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Thank you for this comment. I completely agree with you: I think all it takes is people who act according to their conscience—that results in a community worth living in. That’s all it takes.