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• DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  But stopping things like flag pledges that I mentioned would make the word less powerful for misuse.

  Well, I can see that you disagree and I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye on this.

  My opinion is that patriotism and nationalism cause far more harm than good. Of course, one can disagree, but I haven’t read a single comment in this entire thread that addresses why patriotism is so important or what positive effects it has.

  Only references to the fact that nationalism and patriotism are not the same thing, which is clear to me — still: interestingly, no one has addressed where the difference lies. And no one has addressed the actual statement, namely that both concepts are abused as instruments of power.

  That’s a shame.

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  • atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    But stopping things like flag pledges that I mentioned would make the word less powerful for misuse.

    Would stopping people from using the word “patriotism” help to stop that?

    I haven’t read a single comment in this entire thread that addresses why patriotism is so important or what positive effects it has.

    Even though i personally dont care about the word, i believe that allowing people to so easily erase the meanings of words can be more harmful than not forcing fascists to go from one word to another

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    • DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      How can the fascists be prevented from presenting their inhumane, xenophobic ideology as patriotism? How and why would anyone stop people from using a word? How is that supposed to work?

      Language is a cultural matter that changes in its use. In this context, (social) media are pretty influential these days. However, the problem is that because a few very influential people can influence what billions of people see, they also have a disproportionately greater influence on the discourse from which the usage and meaning of terms derives. Therefore, it seems to me that the only people who could prevent others from presenting fascist ideology as patriotism are, unfortunately, the same people who ensure that this is done.

      An example: Ten years ago, it was unthinkable in Germany to use Nazi slogans in public. People who did so were socially isolated because they were Nazis. Today, however, politicians can stand in front of the camera and quote Goebbels. The reason, in my opinion, is that all this Nazi crap has been pushed so hard by influential media billionaires that it now gives the impression of being a socially acceptable attitude. My point: It can also be an effect created by the media, especially social media: It seems as if you can say these things without running the risk of being socially isolated for your inhuman views – and unfortunately, this has now spilled over into the real world.

      What I mean by this is that in order to influence discourse and thus also the usage and meaning of words to some extent, you need to influence the media that people use - and these media platforms are controlled by people like Musk.

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