Comment on How much CO2 is emitted by manufacturing batteries? | MIT Climate Portal
schmorpel@slrpnk.net 9 months agoA lot of expensive words to call me wrong, but I think the real issue is with ‘in their lifetime’. Producing more stuff - even less harmful stuff than we have now - cannot possibly be less harmful than not producing it. It’s a dishonest way of making the accounts. If you buy a new electric vehicle now while your old one lands on the dump you are not protecting the planet by using cleaner technology, you are adding another car to the pile of trash we are destroying our planet with, because you could have perfectly well kept driving your old one.
part of a broader effort to transition to cleaner, more sustainable energy sources and reduce overall energy consumption.
Reduce energy consumption where? I just don’t see it happen, only a push for more consumerism under the guise of improved eco-friendliness, thanks to an overly optimistic hype around EV and battery tech. A greenwashing article about a revolutionary new battery tech every couple of years or so (never sees the market). All the while in the background, Germany is torn up for lignite to keep up with the rising demand for electric energy, Portugal for lithium to make more batteries, and it still gets hotter every summer. Renewables can’t really keep up with the mega-demand that will come from more EVs on the road. So there will be more nuclear plants, more coal plants, more mega-dams to contain rivers, more landscape destroyed. All so that people in their damned cars can drive to places where the landscape is not yet destroyed, or so the adverts promise.
The push for EVs is a nice trick from the car industry to sell you a completely new line of vehicles full of half-baked tech, first of all. A car used to be a quality product, built to last decades. Now, (for some probably completely innocent reason /s) you are somehow supposed to buy a new model every few years, each more eco-friendly than the last. Look my friend, you cannot produce something from nothing. All these new, eco-friendly battery-powered products they are selling us now are ripped out of the guts of mother earth. Use what you already have for as long as you can, go as local as you can, and don’t fall for the greenwashing hype that you can keep driving without causing damage.
set_secret@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Allow me to address the counter-argument presented, which seems to be rooted in a mixture of oversimplifications, unfounded claims, a failure to recognize the broader context of the transition to cleaner energy sources and a sprinkling of stupidity.
The argument that producing more stuff cannot be less harmful than not producing it is a simplistic view. The “in their lifetime” comparison takes into account the production, use, and disposal of vehicles. It acknowledges that while there is an environmental cost to producing EVs, their overall impact is still lower than that of ICE vehicles. This is not a dishonest accounting, but a comprehensive analysis of the vehicles’ environmental footprint.
The claim that there is no reduction in energy consumption is unfounded. The transition to EVs is accompanied by a shift towards renewable energy sources, which are becoming more prevalent and efficient. This reduces the reliance on fossil fuels and contributes to a decrease in overall energy consumption.
While it is true that resource extraction for batteries and renewable energy infrastructure can have environmental consequences, these impacts must be weighed against the benefits of transitioning away from fossil fuels. The push for EVs and renewable energy is not solely about consumerism; it is a necessary step towards a more sustainable future.
The assertion that renewables cannot keep up with the demand for electric energy is overly pessimistic. Renewable energy capacity is growing rapidly, and technological advancements continue to improve efficiency and reduce costs. The transition to EVs will likely be accompanied by further investments in renewable energy infrastructure, making it more feasible to meet the increased demand.
The claim that the push for EVs is merely a trick by the car industry to sell new vehicles full of half-baked tech is a cynical oversimplification. While there may be some profit-driven motives, the transition to EVs is also driven by government regulations, consumer demand for cleaner transportation, and a genuine desire to reduce the environmental impact of transportation.
The suggestion to use what you already have and go as local as possible is absolutely commendable, but it does not negate the need for systemic change. The push for EVs and renewable energy is not just about greenwashing; it is part of a larger effort to create a more sustainable future. Individual actions, such as driving less and supporting local economies, can absolutely complement these systemic changes. they’re mutually exclusive by any means. a
While I wholeheartedly agree it is essential to be critical of the environmental impact of new technologies, it is equally important to acknowledge the utmost necessity of transitioning away from fossil fuels and the potential benefits of electric vehicles and renewable energy.
Please, I implore you, think a bit harder, I feel you’re so close to getting it.
schmorpel@slrpnk.net 9 months ago
You cloud your mind with so many words, and most of them would be perfectly fitting for an EV advertising campaign.
Developing ways of storing renewable energy? I’m all for it. But EVs are not equal to renewable energy, and renewable energy is in many cases not as clean as it is claimed to be.
Digging lithium out of the earth (no, lithium is not recyclable so far, after a number of loading cycles the battery is trashed. For example look at this article). Less than 1% of Lithium recycled as of 2021??? And you call that renewable? Lithium is a hype that currently makes shady mining companies very rich, it is NOT eco - please invest in other developments. Private vehicles need to make space for public transport, I’m just as pissed about electric fucking eco SUVs as I am about other cars because it’s a stupid way for a society to solve transport. And this article of the so called MIT Climate Portal keeps peddling the private vehicle as the norm and future when we most urgently need less vehicles on the road.
There is not much left other than profit driven motives in late stage capitalism. Bless your tiny heart if you still believe in any altruistic motive of the car/EV industry.
set_secret@lemmy.world 9 months ago
now whilst this feels like playing chess with a pigeon at this point, let us address the nihilism and scientific misunderstandings presented here…
Ah, the classic tactic of dismissing an argument as mere advertising fluff. But let’s not allow such distractions to cloud the facts.
Conflating EVs with renewable energy is a straw man argument. No one claims they are the same, but EVs charged by renewable energy sources significantly reduce emissions compared to gas vehicles. That’s a fact, not a marketing ploy.
Now, let’s tackle the lithium recycling misconception. Contrary to the claim, lithium-ion batteries can indeed be recycled. While the recycling rate is currently low, it is improving, driven by regulations, consumer awareness, and economic factors. Lithium recovery rates may be lower than other materials, but new processes aim to improve this. Dismissing lithium recycling as nonexistent is simply incorrect.
As for the critique of renewable energy, no one claims it’s perfect. But it is far cleaner than fossil fuels, and its flaws should not be used as an excuse to halt progress. The push for EVs and renewable energy is not a mere capitalist ploy; it’s a necessary step towards a more sustainable future.
Regarding private vehicles, I wholeheartedly agree that public transportation should be prioritized. However, this does not negate the need for cleaner personal transportation options. EVs can coexist with improved public transit systems, and both are essential for reducing emissions.
Lastly, the cynicism about profit-driven motives is understandable, but it’s not the whole story. Government regulations, consumer demand, and genuine concern for the environment also drive the transition to EVs. To dismiss all motives as purely capitalist is to ignore the complexity of the issue.
Let us not be blinded by nihilism or scientific misunderstandings. The transition to EVs and renewable energy is not without challenges, but it is a crucial step towards a more sustainable future. Let us hold companies and regulators accountable, push for better recycling and public transit, and continue to innovate for a cleaner world.
bless your tiny brain for reading this and at least trying to comprehend.