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Comment on A rant on left-wing online infighting

Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

The main issue for leftists is that both of your two parties are full of corrupt unabashed neoliberal capitalists who are so far to the right they would make even Margaret Thatcher blush, the main difference being that one party is more openly racist and fascist than the other. That’s not a purity test, it’s a fundamental difference of values.

Are you really living in a democracy when only one of two parties can ever win, and both are 100% commited to neoliberal economics? Nothing is gonna get better in the long run under a system that is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. No war but class war.

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PugJesus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Are you really living in a democracy when only one of two parties can ever win, and both are 100% commited to neoliberal economics? Nothing is gonna get better in the long run under a system that is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. No war but class war.

I’m so glad nothing has improved since 1789 in your eyes. As we all know, minorities and the actual working class, as people don’t actually matter; only being able to beat your chest about how ‘pure’ you are over championing the abstract demographic at the expense of the actual living human beings who make up these classes matters.

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PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Riddle me this

Where did all these people go who were so supportive of the Green Party and PSL and all that? During the election, there were super important parties to vote for, who represented a chance of real change not these dumbfuck Democrats, and a bunch of people on Lemmy were rallying behind them and saying they planned to vote for them and basically never shutting up about it. What happened to those parties and all that advocacy for them? Why, after the election, did it pivot right back around to focusing purely on the Democrats (or on how important it is not to vote just in general as a general rule)?

Also, there are people existing outside the two-party system, Bernie Sanders is one. Do you support expanding out efforts like that to try to break into the two-party oligarchy fest?

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- aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  they ditched their burner accounts when their job is done to move onto to other targeted messaging.
  
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  - PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah. I was seriously curious what they were going to switch to after the election, a lot of them have pretty much just gone silent except for general “we all hate Israel amirite” messaging, and maybe individual issues they wanted to weigh in on. A bunch of them jumped in to make sure everyone knows Graham Platner is a POS and a Nazi, which to me was fascinating.
    
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- Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Where did all these people go who were so supportive of the Green Party and PSL and all that?
  
  Dunno, ask them.
  
  During the election, there were super important parties to vote for, who represented a chance of real change not these dumbfuck Democrats, and a bunch of people on Lemmy were rallying behind them and saying they planned to vote for them and basically never shutting up about it.
  
  I do remember a few brave souls encouraging people to vote Green during the last election, but they were mostly drowned out and hounded by enraged Dems for “throwing away their vote” or for “effectively voting for Trump”. But no rational analysis of the voting patterns from the last election suggests that leftists were responsible in any way for the election loss.
  
  Criticisms of the Democratic Party, the DNC, and the broken two party system are valid and need to be heard. If the Dems keep losing elections, that’s on their terrible candidates, rigged Presidential candidate process, terrible policy choices (e.g. wrt Israel), uninspiring election campaigns, and (mostly) because they are a party of the corporations and for the corporations.
  
  What happened to those parties and all that advocacy for them? Why, after the election, did it pivot right back around to focusing purely on the Democrats (or on how important it is not to vote just in general as a general rule)?
  
  I don’t care if you vote or don’t vote, because it won’t make any difference to where the country is headed unless major political reforms are made to address poverty, break up the two-party system, and stop corporate abuses. And major reforms like that are simply not gonna happen via the shambles that is the existing US political system. As I said before, nothing is gonna get better in the long run under a system that is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. And the Democrats are just as responsible for that system as the Republicans. Making the rich richer and hating on leftists are the only two things they can both agree on.
  
  Also, there are people existing outside the two-party system, Bernie Sanders is one. Do you support expanding out efforts like that to try to break into the two-party oligarchy fest?
  
  Yes, absolutely. Anything to break the stranglehold of the two party system would be good. While I don’t think Bernie is perfect, I would totally be enthused to vote for him (if I lived in the US) because he is consistently on the right side of most issues. I’d support Mamdani too. That fact that neither of those people are “acceptable” representatives of the Democratic party from the perspective of the DNC is very telling though. They did everything they could to stop Bernie’s campaign, and are still doing everything they can to stop Mamdani. Anything to stop the Overton window from moving left an inch or two, right?
  
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  - PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I don’t care if you vote or don’t vote
    
    Why do you ban content from your server that says it’s a good idea to vote, then?
    
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  - aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    people like this are going to get JD Vance elected in 2028
    
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    Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah it definitely won’t be the fault of the Dems for putting forward yet another corporate stooge up for election, and sticking with their unpopular policies, no matter what their own voter base actually wants. They will be blameless, as always.
    
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Rentlar@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I get your point about the rise of neo-liberalism and the helpless feeling of having no good choices. But there’s a mindset that stems from “differences in values”, that could lead to someone today self-describing as a communist who would reject class-war opinions from a resurrected Karl Marx, because of his 19th-century patriarchal views, him not talking enough about the oppression of women transgender and non-binary folks, he may view Indigenous culture as a barrier to social progress and collective power, or because modern-day Russia attacks Ukraine or whatever. I’m not saying this is you, but I hope this illustrates what frustrates me with the online progressive movement.

If one has to wait for a perfect vessel before anyone can start agreeing on policies, then we will never find a vessel that everyone finds perfect and never get started organizing around the policies we want.

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