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Comment on A rant on left-wing online infighting

null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

While lemmy itself isn’t a target for propaganda bots, the narratives they push kinda seep in.

Propaganda doesn’t seek to convert a leftist to the right, their strategy is to fragment the left - factions spend their energy arguing amongst themselves instead of presenting a cohesive opposition.

For example, elements of the left were protesting about Palestine outside Kamala’s campaign events.

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Rentlar@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
On that topic you’re quite right. One PAC was funding contradictory messages about Kamala Harris’ stance on Israel, targated at Jewish and Muslim populations.

There probably are a handful of propagandists here, but I start with the presumption that almost everyone engages with good faith until shown otherwise. Anyway, that’s why I’m calling for nuance in my rant, which could help combat assumptions formed from propaganda.

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for_some_delta@beehaw.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The narrative was vote Biden and move him left. Biden did not move left. He enabled and contributed to genocide. Kamala actively stated she would continue Biden’s policies. She also said she would be “tough on the border”.

Should anyone in a democracy believe the words and actions of the candidates?

I talk to people about ideas like “keeping the full benefit of their labor power”, “cooperating with other human beings”, “no war but the class war” and “no gods no masters”. I’m awful at parties and fragmenting the left. Infighting is real. Never trust a ML.

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- null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  If the dems had convincingly won the last n elections, the republicans would move to the left, which would push the dems to the left.
  
  Biden won by a hair’s breadth.
  
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- PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  The narrative was vote Biden and move him left.
  
  Whose narrative was that? The narrative was, Trump is trying to end democracy and put Hispanics (and later Democrats) in concentration camps, so vote for his opponent. Seems like that was kind of borne out by the future events.
  
  Are you still pissed off that people were suggesting voting for Kamala Harris, watching the state of the US and the world right now? Are you proud of advocating for not voting?
  
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PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

While lemmy itself isn’t a target for propaganda bots

Why do you assume this? It’s impossible to tell most of the time, but every so often one of them fucks up and reveals that something hinky is going on.

The most recent example was someone who was furious about Graham Platner and said we shouldn’t support him, fellow leftists, while also claiming to have been in the US military and also to be from Platner’s tiny home county, using both of those as sources of authority to speak on it, and I can say that at least the military side of that was definitely a lie because the person didn’t know how the US military works.

What is the explanation for that, other than that the person is deliberately doing propaganda against progressive candidates?

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Bloefz@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It was indeed very bad for the democracts to support Israel so staunchly. This is the problem with the US ‘left’. They’re not really left, they’re neoliberal. Money is all that matters to them.

You really need a real left there.

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- null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Exactly what I’m talking about. Well done.
  
  That will do little bot, that will do.
  
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  - Bloefz@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’m not bot :P
    
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- Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Supremacist ideology sets in
  
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  - Bloefz@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I don’t know if it was clear but I don’t subscribe to any ideology. I just align loosely with them based on my own values.
    
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- PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Absolutely true. And yet, whenever US politicians do buck the trend and become vaguely left and give strong criticism to Israel and stop us arming them, this same group of people calls them “Zionists” or throws paint on their campaign offices, and tries to insist that leftists shouldn’t support those politicians, either.
  
  Almost as if it was always about creating division in the left and not about Israel in the first place…
  
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njm1314@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Don’t be so confident there isn’t bot and or paid influence activity here. There have been some suspicious trends that pop up even on lemmy.

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mistermodal@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The voting system is uttely cancerous and feeds into the westoid preoccupation with creating winners and losers in society. It naturally creates echo chambers.

That being said, your speculation is foolish. Private intelligence contractors openly advertise that they monitor the fediverse. It would be kind of stupid not to

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