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Comment on If you live in a city, you'll probably end up memorizing the meanings of arbitrary numbers.

We sort of do, sometimes, at some point, “stop” reading.

For example, I live in a city. My stop is served by about 5 different routes, but since I’m so close to center, the remaining part of the route is basically the same for 3 out of 5 of these. Most trips go to center though, the one that does not only goes once an hour, while the rest total up to maybe 25 per hour. (One of those takes significantly longer but would still get me there.)

Initially I would read the signage, but eventually I don’t think I really need to, since in 99.9% of cases I can just see a big thing arriving and hop on it. That’s because I already have the context of where I am, what is the time and what kinds of trips are likely. Also, the 3 optimal routes are served by tram and 2 trolley buses, while the one “bad” route is served by a regular-sized bus and the one “sub-optimal” route is served by a long bus. So just by looking at the shape of thing is arriving (or listening to the sound it’s making) I can already make a really good guess if it’s ok for me.

So my (kinda weak) point is in really common situations we kind of stop needing to look at (or even stop looking at) the numbers, although we would still remember them for other reasons.

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A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Thought experiment: take that whole situation you just described and replace all letters and numbers with meaningless alien symbols. Does it still work?

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- netvor@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  LOL next time I wait for tram I’ll just imagine meaningless alien symbol arrive instead of it. :D
  
  But really, I think the abstraction is kind of fascinating. The “closeness” of a route 34 to route 36 means nothing. Or the number of “34” in route 34 has nothing to do with gate 34 on an airport. So much is kind of obvious to most adult humans. (I think–and I suppose there might be interesting cases with neurodiversity.)
  
  Now what if instead of numbers it was happy cartoon-like animal symbols like they use in day cares. Again, I can state the obvious: duck is a bird and hen is a bird, but the “duck route” and “hen route” don’t need to have anything to do with each other. And sure, duck route and duck airport terminal have nothing to do with each other as well. Again, sort of obvious, right?
  
  Then if it’s alien symbols: sure, now I can’t do the connections like “32 vs 34” or “duck vs hen” anymore, can’t I? Well … no matter meaning in any other context, as long as I can recognize difference between two symbols I can also recognize similarity between other potential pair of symbols. Eg. if two alien symbols had a dominant vertical line then I could still have the same space for connections.
  
  My point is that this need of separating the abstraction from concretion is inevitable, regardless of whether the symbol has a conflicting meaning used elsewhere. As long as we attach some understanding to the symbols, there are still some relations we might want to attach to them. That’s even if we did not use the same symbols elsewhere, which we do.
  
  The next stage of the thought experiment: what if it’s not symbols but just the real things. Can I recognize a tram from another one? (Literally one physical vehicle from another?) Well it would be really hard but actually also counter-productive in the modern world, because the whole point of the abstraction in those arbitrary numbers is that they represent the route – which is also completely abstract concept. Ie. it does not have to be the same vehicle, and the same vehicle could be re-assigned to another route.
  
  I don’t know where on this axis would the radio frequencies mentioned in OP be placed, though. Frequencies exist in range(s) so a certain frequency currently on your radio receiver being higher or lower than the target one does tell you how to twist the knob. (Yeah, I’m 45 years old so I have used analog radio, although it was like 30 years ago…) There must be at least one other axis to it.
  
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  - A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I didn’t think that through; what I really meant: replace ALL numbers and letters with nothing. Even if you had years to memorize everything before that change, I don’t think you’d fare well. As you seem to have pointed out in your second-to-last paragraph.
    
    BTW the metro in Mexico City uses (Aztec, Mayan?) symbols for their routes (in addition to numbers iirc) because many people can’t read. Same with many preschool games: instead of trying to teach numbers/letters/counting prematurely, they just use colors or animals instead.
    
    And when you think that through, letters and numbers aren’t all that different from “take a left at that big oak”.
    
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