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The time is 1900. There are no traffic laws. A car almost runs into a dude.

If you say, “that car is dangerous” you are correct, and society tends towards making laws that protect pedestrians.

If you say “that person is jaywalking” you are framing the situation such that the car has more of a right to be there than the person. Maybe you think that cars are modern. “The wave of the future.” This is the incorrect framing. We have seen how much of a mistake this was.

Some places like the Netherlands have been undoing the damage, rectifying the error in urban design.

We are downtown because that was the context in which the term “jaywalking” was invented. To kick pedestrians out of their own downtown.

We’re talking about the supposed use of the word “jaywalking” implying that all pedestrians are to blame for collisions

Maybe that’s what you’re talking about. The rest of us are talking about how “jaywalking” was coined to make a normal behavior (people walking around their city) seem wrong. That is why so many people are telling you to listen to what they’re saying.

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Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Can’t help but notice you declined to answer any of my questions.

If you say “that person is jaywalking” you are framing the situation such that the car has more of a right to be there than the person.

Incorrect. You are framing the situation such that the jaywalker is endangering themselves and other road users by ignoring the rules of the road that keep everyone safe. “Jaywalking” does not refer to pedestrians as a whole, only the people committing the act of jaywalking.

Some places like the Netherlands have been undoing the damage, rectifying the error in urban design.

Wonderful! Good for them!

We are downtown because that was the context in which the term “jaywalking” was invented.

Okay, so “jaywalking” only applies “downtown”. Presumably you can provide a source for this?

The rest of us are talking about how “jaywalking” was coined to make a normal behavior (people walking around their city) seem wrong

That is not what you’re talking about. You’re talking about automotive propaganda and the history of urban infrastructure. Nothing about the term itself or how it was misused or appropriated to mean something other than exactly what it does.

That is why so many people are telling you to listen to what they’re saying.

They keep saying things that I already know. Strawman topics that I agree with and don’t require further discussion.

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- sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  You are framing the situation such that the jaywalker is endangering themselves and other road users by ignoring the rules of the road that keep everyone safe. “Jaywalking” does not refer to pedestrians as a whole, only the people committing the act of jaywalking.
  
  This is simply miskaken. At the time the term was invented, the streets were for pedestrians. There were natually no laws or norms saying people shouldnt walk in the street. Car companies waged a campaign to kick pedestrians out. If we can’t agree on this basic fact, I am not sure how to continue the discussion.
  
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  - Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    There were natually no laws or norms saying people shouldnt walk in the street
    
    There aren’t any today either. But there are regulations about where and when people should walk in the street. Violations of these regulations (not literally just moving your feet back and forth) are known as jaywalking.
    
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    sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    There are laws. They are called the right of way. I will not argue further with someone who is unable to incorporate new information.
    
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