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sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago- You could blame the pedestrian, but it would be incorrect. A pedestrian is more vulnerable and harmless than a vehicle, and arguably has more of a reason to be traveling through the downdown of a city on foot than the vehicle does.
When cars began taking over streets making it dangerous for the people there, and auto makers lobbied to make cities more car centric, it made the cities way worse.
Imagine for a moment if in the model t days, the dangerous vehicle was held responsible and regulated instead of the people walking. We would have walkable cities today and cars wouldn’t be allowed to take over.
Ulrich@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
So there’s no situation where a pedestrian is at fault? If a pedestrian sprints out from behind a wall into traffic moving 70MPH, that’s 100% the driver’s fault for hitting them? This is the logic you want to go with?
What does that have to do with whose responsibility it is!?
No they don’t? And why are we downtown?
You mean instead of a world where we hold responsible the people who are actually responsible?
No, we would just have more criminals. The only way we have walkable cities is by banning cars.
I know you want to talk about that. I agree with you. But it is, in fact, not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the supposed use of the word “jaywalking” implying that all pedestrians are to blame for collisions.
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
The time is 1900. There are no traffic laws. A car almost runs into a dude.
If you say, “that car is dangerous” you are correct, and society tends towards making laws that protect pedestrians.
If you say “that person is jaywalking” you are framing the situation such that the car has more of a right to be there than the person. Maybe you think that cars are modern. “The wave of the future.” This is the incorrect framing. We have seen how much of a mistake this was.
Some places like the Netherlands have been undoing the damage, rectifying the error in urban design.
We are downtown because that was the context in which the term “jaywalking” was invented. To kick pedestrians out of their own downtown.
Maybe that’s what you’re talking about. The rest of us are talking about how “jaywalking” was coined to make a normal behavior (people walking around their city) seem wrong. That is why so many people are telling you to listen to what they’re saying.
Ulrich@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Can’t help but notice you declined to answer any of my questions.
Incorrect. You are framing the situation such that the jaywalker is endangering themselves and other road users by ignoring the rules of the road that keep everyone safe. “Jaywalking” does not refer to pedestrians as a whole, only the people committing the act of jaywalking.
Wonderful! Good for them!
Okay, so “jaywalking” only applies “downtown”. Presumably you can provide a source for this?
That is not what you’re talking about. You’re talking about automotive propaganda and the history of urban infrastructure. Nothing about the term itself or how it was misused or appropriated to mean something other than exactly what it does.
They keep saying things that I already know. Strawman topics that I agree with and don’t require further discussion.
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
This is simply miskaken. At the time the term was invented, the streets were for pedestrians. There were natually no laws or norms saying people shouldnt walk in the street. Car companies waged a campaign to kick pedestrians out. If we can’t agree on this basic fact, I am not sure how to continue the discussion.