until someone makes a decentralized option that’s polished and reliable enough that nobody will be mad at me after I talk them into using it, Signal will be my go-to for messaging.
In fact that option already exists, it’s Signal itself, except that they deliberately made it harder to use that way. The client and server code are (from what I understand) both downloadable. So you can run your own server, modify the client to connect to your server instead of to Signal’s, compile the new client, and get your friends to use your new .apk instead of using the one from the Play store. Of course Signal could perfectly well have just made the server address a user configuration field in the first place, like Nextcloud does.
So why didn’t they? The existence of the social media feature tells something about their intentions. The fact that you can decide not to use that feature is irrelevant to what it tells. The idea is a many-to-many system with N users has N^2^ possible connections, which increases the site engagement and stickiness. That is, they are in the eyeball monetization business or are gearing up to enter it. So that’s at best a warning sign.
I have to say I don’t use Signal so I don’t understand what is supposed to be great about it. I have a self-hosted Nextcloud (including Chat) and it was a hassle to install, but hasn’t needed much attention since then. You can use either the Nextcloud app from F-droid or you can use an ordinary browser to chat over it, no app needed. That also means you can use a normal desktop computer instead of a phone. It does voice and video too, though those aren’t so great.
Jitsi Meet is supposed to also be ok for self-hosting though I haven’t tried doing that. I did play with their web client over their public instance (meet.jit.si) and that was quite nice.
GNU Jami unfortunately goes too far and tries to be serverless, and hits a bunch of reliability snags because of that. I tried to use it but just had too little success. I don’t know if it’s fixable without abandoning the underlying architecture. And, it needs an app. I think it’s preferable to support browser clients even if a mobiie app is also available.
I haven’t tried Matrix. I’m enough of a luddite to still use IRC but it has shortcomings for how people use chat these days.
Zak@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Encouraging the use of alternate servers on which only a handful of people can communicate instead of everyone who uses Signal is probably a net loss. Having to connect to multiple servers or switch servers to communicate with everyone a user wants to talk to sounds like a pretty bad experience. That would be different if it was federated. Co-founder Moxie Marlinspike has argued that federation would make it harder to achieve Signal’s goals of bringing private communication to as many people as possible. I want him to be wrong about that, but my experiences with Matrix suggest he might not be.
I don’t think so, in large part because they’re structured as a nonprofit and have enough funding to last a while. I would think that about a venture-backed startup under similar circumstances.
It’s just another messaging app in terms of UX. The value comes from:
Nextcloud Talk doesn’t have end to end encryption. It’s experimental on Jitsi. It’s hard to justify not having that for a private messaging service in 2025.
solrize@lemmy.ml 4 days ago
Is there even a desktop client for Signal? The mobile app isn’t on F-droid so I can’t easily install it (I don’t use the Play store). Maybe i can get the APK from somewhere.
The other points are reasonably valid though the lack of end to end encryption is somewhat mitigated by self hosting.
I don’t understand why browser notifications are slower than other types of app notifications, but I’m not an Android wizard so maye there’s a reason. Does Signal require Google Play Services to get Firebase messages? I have that turned off too, so that’s another annoyance / privacy invasion that I’d have to enable.
I don’t particularly want Signal to be federated any more than I want all the world’s websites to be federated. I want a zillion separate non-federated servers, not like the tragic 1-way internet that we mostly have now. So your contacts file has something like email addresses in it, that tell the client what server to connect to for a given person.
Regardless of Signal’s financial intentions there’s no question that money and eyeballs hypnotize people and warps their minds. This happened to Wikipedia decades ago. They operate just like an internet startup where they obsess over user activity. They abandoned their vision of giving everyone in the world a free encyclopedia (i.e. every computer in the world has Wikipedia on its hard drive for completely private access) and instead focus on running a giant web site that constantly tracks people, gets censored, etc. They are swimming in money and are always asking for more anyway. I see Signal trying to reach a similar future.
Zak@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Yes. There’s also an experimental third-party client for desktop Linux called Flare. I’ve used Flare on some devices that the official client doesn’t support and found it adequate. With some more maturity, I’ll probably prefer it to the official client. Signal officially discourages third-party clients because it cannot guarantee their security but does not attempt to block them except in cases where specific clients are known to be compromised.
Account creation on the mobile app is recommended before using these as it relies on SMS verification. I don’t like that, but it probably cuts down on spam; I’ve received exactly one spam on Signal in over 10 years of use.
Signal encourages installing from Google Play and uses Firebase messages by default, but does work without them. Given your set of preferences, however, you would probably prefer the third-party client Molly, which is on F-Droid and supports UnifiedPush.
That sounds like it ends up with properties similar to federation, but the client has to do all the work. The client would also need some means of identifying itself to all those random servers where there’s a cost to creating new identities, or people would need to do key exchange when they exchange contact information. Without that, this proposed system would be overrun by spam as soon as it got popular.
Server-side federation solves a lot of problems. Why wouldn’t you want that?
You can do that. The download with images is over 100gb compressed, and it expands to several terabytes. It’s not hard to imagine why most people don’t want to use it that way.