Comment on Nepal bans social media(Facebook, X, Reddit, Mastodon, Discord, Signal, YouTube and more) for failing to register with the government; Only 7 to be open(Viber, TikTok, Telegram and more)

• solrize@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I’m bothered mostly by the default Signal app’s inability to use a self-hosted server instead of signal.com’s own server, and have been dubious about Signal because of that. The social media feature is something I hadn’t heard of til just now. It reinforces my skepticism but it’s just another issue. I’d be more interested in Signal if I could use my own server without having to get people to install modified clients.

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  • Zak@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I’m bothered mostly by the default Signal app’s inability to use a self-hosted server instead of signal.com’s own server.

    I don’t like the centralized nature of it either, but until someone makes a decentralized option that’s polished and reliable enough that nobody will be mad at me after I talk them into using it, Signal will be my go-to for messaging.

    Ideologically, I’d like it to be Matrix. I use Matrix on occasion, at least when Element web isn’t taking up 10% of my laptop’s RAM, ElementX isn’t crashing on load, and whatever native desktop client I tried last is actually performing key exchange so I can read my private messages. I would not try to talk someone into trying Matrix right now unless they were ideologically motivated or interested in the technology.

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    • solrize@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      until someone makes a decentralized option that’s polished and reliable enough that nobody will be mad at me after I talk them into using it, Signal will be my go-to for messaging.

      In fact that option already exists, it’s Signal itself, except that they deliberately made it harder to use that way. The client and server code are (from what I understand) both downloadable. So you can run your own server, modify the client to connect to your server instead of to Signal’s, compile the new client, and get your friends to use your new .apk instead of using the one from the Play store. Of course Signal could perfectly well have just made the server address a user configuration field in the first place, like Nextcloud does.

      So why didn’t they? The existence of the social media feature tells something about their intentions. The fact that you can decide not to use that feature is irrelevant to what it tells. The idea is a many-to-many system with N users has N^2^ possible connections, which increases the site engagement and stickiness. That is, they are in the eyeball monetization business or are gearing up to enter it. So that’s at best a warning sign.

      I have to say I don’t use Signal so I don’t understand what is supposed to be great about it. I have a self-hosted Nextcloud (including Chat) and it was a hassle to install, but hasn’t needed much attention since then. You can use either the Nextcloud app from F-droid or you can use an ordinary browser to chat over it, no app needed. That also means you can use a normal desktop computer instead of a phone. It does voice and video too, though those aren’t so great.

      Jitsi Meet is supposed to also be ok for self-hosting though I haven’t tried doing that. I did play with their web client over their public instance (meet.jit.si) and that was quite nice.

      GNU Jami unfortunately goes too far and tries to be serverless, and hits a bunch of reliability snags because of that. I tried to use it but just had too little success. I don’t know if it’s fixable without abandoning the underlying architecture. And, it needs an app. I think it’s preferable to support browser clients even if a mobiie app is also available.

      I haven’t tried Matrix. I’m enough of a luddite to still use IRC but it has shortcomings for how people use chat these days.

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      • Zak@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        So why didn’t [Signal make it easy to connect to alternate servers]?

        Encouraging the use of alternate servers on which only a handful of people can communicate instead of everyone who uses Signal is probably a net loss. Having to connect to multiple servers or switch servers to communicate with everyone a user wants to talk to sounds like a pretty bad experience. That would be different if it was federated. Co-founder Moxie Marlinspike has argued that federation would make it harder to achieve Signal’s goals of bringing private communication to as many people as possible. I want him to be wrong about that, but my experiences with Matrix suggest he might not be.

        they are in the eyeball monetization business or are gearing up to enter it

        I don’t think so, in large part because they’re structured as a nonprofit and have enough funding to last a while. I would think that about a venture-backed startup under similar circumstances.

        I don’t use Signal so I don’t understand what is supposed to be great about it

        It’s just another messaging app in terms of UX. The value comes from:

        • Many of my friends and family use it
        • It’s familiar enough and reliable enough that if I ask someone who doesn’t already use it to move a conversation to Signal, I’m confident they won’t be mad at me for complicating their life
        • It’s secure by default and difficult for users to accidentally make private information not-private (e.g. by saving media to device storage where other apps can access it without user confirmation)
        • Its security and privacy have been inspected by a wider range of experts than most other options
        • The organizational structure and funding model means it’s unlikely to be enshittified in the next decade

        Nextcloud Talk doesn’t have end to end encryption. It’s experimental on Jitsi. It’s hard to justify not having that for a private messaging service in 2025.

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