Comment on Bambu Lab announces the Vortek H2C, an automatic nozzle-changing version of the H2D
philpo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I still don’t get the “It will be so much faster” claim.
Maybe if I am wrong,but with that system the process for a three colour print will be:
- Print the layer with Nozzle A.
- Cut the filament and retract it totally out of the tube. *
- Store Nozzle A
- Grab Nozzle B (can they be preheated?).
- Push the filament all the way into the tube while heating up Nozzle B.
- Print the layer with Nozzle B.
- Cut the filament and retract it totally out of the tube.
- Store Nozzle B.
- Grab Nozzle C.
- Push the filament all the way into the tube while heating up Nozzle C.
- Print the layer with Nozzle C.
- Cut the filament and retract it totally out of the tube.
- Store Nozzle C.
- Grab Nozzle A.
- Print next Layer.
Especially retracting and inserting takes ages - I only own the AMS 1 but I don’t think the 2 is much faster - and the whole process can even that much faster
(*:This is one point where I wonder how well this will work. They basically need to cut directly over the nozzle/hotend to avoid excess. But as heat does go upward filament at this point is usually already reasonably soften. In the current mode of operations this is no issue as “the next filament” pushes it downward into the poop tower anyway. How well this will retract and extrude when BL claims the issue of softened filament is so big that this is the reason why the AMS 2 can’t dry and print at the same time remains to be seen)
While on a full Toolchanger it is:
- Print Layer 1 with Toolhead 1.
- Store Toolhead 1
- Grab Toolhead 2
- Print Layer with Toolhead 2
- Store Toolhead 2
- Grab Toolhead 3
- Print Layer with Toolhead 3
- Store Toolhead 3
- Grab Toolhead 1
- Print next layer.
The only advantage I see with their model is the fact, that if you need more than 4 materials, any AMS like products needs in theory more careful planning unless you use one AMS per Toolchanger.
But with a tool changer the whole “retract and insert” in theory can be done during the time the tool is not used.
The other claim with the pogo pins was funny,though. At least it made Snapmaker publish a clarification of how long their pogo Pins are supposed to last and that they will be easily replaceable. I give them that.
TheRealKuni@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I don’t know if it will be faster than a tool changer (I doubt it, but I suspect the difference will be pretty negligible), but it will be much faster than swapping material the way it has been. Purging the plastic from the nozzle takes a while, especially if swapping between, say, PETG/PCTG and PLA for support purposes. Or PVA for that matter. Basically anything where mixing the filaments can compromise the structural integrity of the result you need additional purging.
The time it takes to retract filament into the AMS and then send out the new is pretty small. The longest part of the process is the purging.
Obviously a tool changer is a solid solution to this problem, but I gotta be honest I’m curious to see how this one plays out. And it never hurts to have more solutions to a problem within the industry.
philpo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I am currently unable to time it exactly,but for the AMS 1 I think it was around 30sec. for a full load/unload between cutting and reinserting (which is amongst the most error prone part of filament handling imho). But yeah, purging time is of course even more time consuming - but there is simply zero chance a toolchanger won’t still be faster. (And more flexible)
The major benefit of Bambus approach?
There is literally zero chance of people using third party nozzles in their approach. But yeah, I am also curious to see how it plays out. It might end with a new January-Disaster for Bambu Lab. Or not.
And I find it extremely funny, that the video and blog post is so clearly aimed at Snapmaker. That’s incredibly funny,imho.
TheRealKuni@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
That’s a really good point about the nozzles.