Comment on It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes

• theparadox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  it’s not a replacement for a human brain, it’s an assistant.

  This is what I think AI and automation is generally good at and should be used for - mitigating unpleasant or repetitive work so that the focus of the user is productivity/creativity.

  This is what this integration is for - it’s not a replacement for a human brain, it’s an assistant. As are all LLMs.

  The context is something we disagree on wholeheartedly. Those funding and fundraising for AI and an enormous subset of those using are not looking to use AI in the way we are talking about. The prior are hoping to use AI to extract value from it at the expense of people who would otherwise need to be paid, or they and claim it can do anything and everything. Those using it, many of them, do not have a sufficient understanding to comprehend the solution. They are basically “vibe coding”. Tell the LLM to do something they aren’t knowledgeable about, then keep telling it to fix the problems until they don’t see problems anymore. Yes, spreadsheet formulas are likely simpler than an app but I know people who use AI for Google Sheets and they rarely test any results, let alone rigorously.

  Anecdotal, sure, but I don’t have enough faith in humanity to presume everyone else is doing something wildly different.

  source

  • Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Well… Yeah, I get what you mean, and - in general - I agree.

    However, to me it’s also a bit like criticising the use of hammers because a lot of idiots hit themselves on the heads with them. Or, even worse, hit others on the heads.

    AI/LLMs are a tool, and just like any other tool, they can be misused. That doesn’t mean the tool is bad, or immoral, or whatever, to use.

    That’s why I hate the today’s discourse of “anything that has AI is shite be default” that so many people online have.

    Let’s laugh at obviously bullshit attempt of shoving AI down consumer’s throats, but when it comes to actual, proper implementation - like in the case of baking Copilot into Excel - it becomes yet another optional tool at users’ disposal.

    source

    • theparadox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I think it would be infinitely better for an LLM to walk a user through the use of the formula in their specific use case rather than do it for them… but that won’t sell as well because most people don’t want to learn to use a spreadsheet they just want to do a thing and move on to something else. This is how it is sold and this is why it is used, in most cases. It’s not a hammer that people misused despite there being nothing in the sales material about it’s usefulness as a bludgeoning device against other humans. LLMs, spreadsheet copilot included, is commonly packaged and sold as a magic solution that will just do the work for you, with an asterisk and fine print stating that it’s for entertainment purposes only and that whoever isn’t liable for any false information or whatever bullshit clause they come up with. People use it as it is sold to them and that’s what worries me.

      another optional tool at users’ disposal.

      I just had my place of work upgrade me to Windows 11 this week. In order to install office, I was directed by Microsoft to download the “Office 365 Copilot” app which downloaded the office installer. Copilot is not subtle. It may be technically optional but good lord does it want you to know about and use it for everything.

      And no, I didn’t try it yet. I will likely be trying it and Gemini soon out of curiosity. Last time I tried to use it I was given hallucinated nonexistant python modules and powershell commands that wasted my time. It’s been a year or so though.

      source

      • Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I think it would be infinitely better for an LLM to walk a user through the use of the formula in their specific use case rather than do it for them

        The one time I used it (via the Microsoft 365 Copilot), that’s exactly what it did. It only created the table in the spreadsheet that I wanted and then explained how to do the formula, explained the bits and bobs of the formula, showed me the code and told me where to put it.

        Sure, if I was lazy, I’d just copy-paste without thinking, but the information was there.

        but that won’t sell as well because most people don’t want to learn to use a spreadsheet they just want to do a thing and move on to something else (…) with an asterisk and fine print stating that it’s for entertainment purposes only and that whoever isn’t liable for any false information

        At the same time, you could be arguing that calculators should be teaching people how to do maths, instead of just giving them the result, right? It’s actually a bit similar to LLMs, because, well, if you don’t know how maths and calculators work, you can get a result that’s horribly wrong (try 3+2*3 on any simple calculator and you’ll get 15).

        I just had my place of work upgrade me to Windows 11 this week (…) I was directed by Microsoft to download the “Office 365 Copilot” app which downloaded the office installer

        So, first of all, it sucks that your IT didn’t have the tools to handle this for you in the first place.

        Secondly - that’s just Microsoft being Microsoft. They love changing names and making things as confusing as possible. Although now Copilot is part of that app, when they originally introduced the new name, it was just a rebranded Microsoft 365 App. We were joking that it was done by some middle manager so he could boast that “100% of Office users now utilise Copilot”.

        Last time I tried to use it I was given hallucinated nonexistant python modules and powershell commands that wasted my time

        I haven’t yet seen an LLM that didn’t invent PowerShell modules, although recently Copilot’s been pretty good.

        source