Comment on Docker or Proxmox? Something else entirely?
glizzyguzzler@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
If you’ve got Debian already installed, I cannot resist advocating for Incus (stable branch from Zabbly repo with web ui https://blog.simos.info/how-to-install-and-setup-the-incus-web-ui/) in lieu of proxmox. Does the same thing but you don’t have to rip out the kernel Debian uses.
With Debian 13 you have access to podman quadlets, use that for any non-vm needs. The ease of docker compose files easily removes reason for programs in LXC containers, and podman removes reason for docker in an LXC. LXC is left only for programs that aren’t containerized. VMs for security DMZ. Podman for bulk of stuff you want.
Good luck!
tofubl@discuss.tchncs.de 4 days ago
I was in a similar spot not too long ago, setting up a firewall and general network box. I was going to go with Proxmox but a fellow Lemmy guy strongly advocated for Incus on top of vanilla Debian. I was intrigued and ended up going for it. Learned a lot about networking in Debian (bridging, IP assignment and so on) for things I could have gotten for free in Proxmox (literally a few clicks), and had to fight Incus to work with a FreeBSD VM for Opnsense, but I love the setup now. Pure debian with a few Incus VMs and Docker inside of those as needed. So clean!
koala@programming.dev 3 days ago
Came in here to mention Incus if no one had.
I love it. I have three “home production” servers running Proxmox, but mostly because Proxmox is one of very few LTS/comercially-supported ways to run Linux in a supported way with root (and everything else on ZFS). And while its web UI is still a bit clunky in places, it comes in handy some times.
However, Incus automation is just… superior.
incus launch --vm images:debian/13 foo, wait a few seconds thenincus exec foo – bashand I’m root on a console of a ready-to-go Debian VM. Without–vm, it’s a lightweight LXC container. And Ansible supports running commands throughincus exec, so you can provision stuff WITHOUT BOTHERING TO SET UP ANYTHING.AND, it works remotely without fuss, so I can set up an Incus remote on a beefy server and spawn VMs nearly transparently. +
incus file pull|pushto transfer files.I’m kinda pondering scripting removal of the Proxmox bits from a Proxmox install, so that I just keep their ZFS support and run Incus on top.
Cyber@feddit.uk 3 days ago
Hmm, I setup a Proxmox machine a while back because, well, all the cool kids seemed to do it - and plenty of “support” on youtube
I found Incus and it just seemed better, but it was harder to find info on (back then) and seemed a little unready
Now, I regret not sticking with my gut instinct as I’ve got to basically rip out Proxmox to get Incus in, which means all my VMs are prisoners (and us: 1 VM is Home Assistant!)
So, do you know if it’s possible to migrate my VMs across to Incus, or is it literally wipe drive, start again?
(Obviously the data in each VM can be backed up & restored into new VMs)
koala@programming.dev 3 days ago
I haven’t tested this, but I would expect there to be ways to do it, esp for VMs if they are not LXC containers.
(I try to automate provisioning as much as possible, so I don’t do this kind of stuff often.)
The Incus forum is not huge, but it’s friendly, and the authors are quite active.
glizzyguzzler@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 days ago
I’m looking at Opnsense on an Incus VM soon, what was your fight there? Good to know what I’ll hit ;)
Agreed on that path - some networking (like mimicking proxmox’s bridge connections which give VMs their own MAC/IP) takes effort to find the solution. But the basic LXC/VM-shares-your-IP works super easily and the script ability is great. Plus it doesn’t feel like a yoke on your system that is heavy and drives it, but just another application! I feel it’s close enough, and when you get it where you want it, it’s perf. I assume they’ll get “one click” solutions for the harder stuff baked in as they get more attention and traction.
tofubl@discuss.tchncs.de 3 days ago
“Just” some highly specific VM settings, in the end. I don’t know much about that, and terms like qemu don’t mean anything to me so I followed blog posts until it worked. It’s possible that it is actually trivial.
It’s been a while, but I can look up what I have when you need it. Feel free to ping me!
Yes, it was exactly that: Once I got the NICs set up the way I wanted them it was a breeze and everything just works. And I really like that I made every part work myself, no magic. I learned a lot, and wouldn’t have had I relied on Proxmox fiddling with the right parts for me.
glizzyguzzler@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 days ago
Thanks for the links! I had no idea there were special settings needed