Comment on Crypto mogul Do Kwon, known as ‘the cryptocurrency king,’ pleads guilty to fraud charges

• sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  What do they do with Monero?

  • buy other things with it
  • exchange for cash through the black market

  This exact same thing happens w/ a lot of other things, such as:

  • US dollar (or perhaps Euro) transactions in countries that manipulate their currency
  • drug smuggling - the drug dealer “launders” the money to whatever currency they want

  Basically, the same thing that works for illicit transactions protects activists, political dissidents, etc in authoritarian regions. All privacy coins provide is a convenient digital medium of exchange, how that gets turned into another medium of exchange is up to the merchant.

  For things like utilities, authoritarian regimes tend to be pretty corrupt, and they already do under-the-table transactions. Using Monera vs drugs, foreign currency, etc isn’t going to change that.

  I wouldn’t be surprised if your transactions would be less private with monero than a bank payment (because of Monero’s unlicensed nature).

  How so? Monero explicitly hides transaction details, so even if a large actor like the Russian, Chinese, or US government wanted, they can’t track transactions, even if they compromise one end of the transaction. The wallet ID you use when buying something is ephemeral, the protocol creates a ton of misleading transactions so tracking down the correct one is very difficult, and even if they did, they’d have to break the crypto to link two transactions from the same wallet. Transactions are also very inexpensive, generally costing under a penny, so even if you wallet gets compromised, you can inexpensively move it to a new wallet.

  The only way Monero would be less private than a bank is if government regulations make it so and under-the-table transactions are blocked effectively. But that would require a heavy surveillance state, and the heavier the surveillance state is, the more attractive under-the-table transactions become.

  Privacy coins get pushback from governments because they’re effective at protecting privacy. It turns out, governments like spying on transactions, and would get rid of cash if they could get away with it. They get used a lot for illicit transactions because they’re effective at it, and that’s why governments have started to restrict their use (i.e. banning Monero from exchanges).

  I’m not a crypto fan boy by any stretch, and I don’t think anyone should “invest” in them because they don’t generate any form of value (I feel the same about precious metals). But I do think privacy coins have a place in society as a digital cash replacement, because I’d really rather not have my transaction details spied on by governments. If you want practical reasons for this, look no further than the Mastercard/Visa scandal w/ porn gaes on Steam and other platforms.

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  • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    With all due respect, you don’t understand what you are talking about. In a sense, your arguments (and their complete disconnect from reality) just proves that monero is not a viable use case for value exchange in authoritarian countries (or even democratic countries).

    Your monero for drugs for local cash idea is idiotic and that’s not how any of this works. Have you ever given an “under-the-table” payment for utilities? Of course not! You are just making shit up, I can’t put this in a more diplomatic manner.

    Because of what I mentioned, I won’t go into an in-depth discussion around how you would be tracked (I trust you have sufficient common sense to think this through).

    That being said I will point out two things:

    1. I never challenged the technical merits of monero (vis a vis cash, bitcoin or drugs).
    2. The world does not exist on the blockchain, you don’t have to break the monero protocol to enable tracking. That’s arguably the most inefficient way possible of getting what you need.

    Make of this what you will.

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    • cooligula@sh.itjust.works ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That’s some pretty big (rude) talk for someone who isn’t willing to back their opinions with any sort of argument. Saying things like “Your idea is idiotic”, “You don’t understand what you’re talking about”, “You are just making shit up” but then proceeding to say “Because of what I mentioned, I won’t go into an in-depth discussion around how you would be tracked” is a pretty cowardly stance in my opinion. “I will discredit your arguments with ridicule and no counter points”.

      I for one do see the value in privacy protecting crypto currencies. I concede that they are not a viable option for utilitarian and common practices since the use of crypto is not common and does require specific know-how. However, they do have their usecases. Whistleblowers, for example. Regarding the second point you made: I guess you are implying the main vulnerability is the humans involved in the transaction. If that is the case, the responsibility on handling the transactions anonymously falls onto the interested party i.e. the one who is interested in keeping the transaction anonymous will also need to devise a scenario that is compatible with anonymity.

      On the other hand, if anonymity isn’t imperative and the users just want a more privacy friendly solution to payment transactions, I think it also makes sense. You can prefer the banks not monitoring everything you do but also not need to live in anonymity and accept the fact that, if interested, the governing entities will most likely have the means to track down your transactions. But that is most likely only going to affect criminals, not privacy conscious citizens.

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      • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I was rude because I found the notion that monero is a great tool for “victims of domestic abuse” and “activists and political dissidents” distasteful.

        Shilling some crypto coins (even if does have technical privacy features) under guise of concern about “victims of domestic abuse” if pretty fucking low. This is scumbag level of polemics.

        Privacy is a social political issue. A social and political issue cannot be solved via technical means (even though this is a very common propaganda argument).

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Have you ever given an “under-the-table” payment for utilities?

      Of course not, because I don’t live in an area that manipulates its currency, nor have I needed that level of privacy. I have, however, lived in an area where that type of thing was commonplace. I paid for rent, utilities, and groceries with cash, and you’d have to be incredibly naïve to believe that everyone paid taxes on that money. If I wanted to “go dark” there, I could’ve, all I’d need is a stash of cash.

      If you want to live off the grid, you operate in untraceable arrangements, and that protects both you and the service provider.

      My point here is that whether you can easily liquate the medium of exchange isn’t nearly as important as the benefits that medium provides. If you need the protections that privacy coins provide, both sides of the transaction will find a way to make it work.

      I won’t go into an in-depth discussion around how you would be tracked

      I wish you would, because then we’d have something to discuss.

      I assume you’re talking about the $5 wrench idea (i.e. this xkcd), as in get people to rat out the dissidents. Or maybe you’re talking about hacking users devices, or some other side-channel attack (i.e. packet snooping). None of that has nothing to do with the medium of exchange, and there are ways to mitigate that risk.

      My point is that Monero has uses today, and it can be more useful if people actually start trying to use it. I see it as similar to Tor, the more people use it, the safer it is for the people who truly need it.

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      • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Where did I say I believe that everyone pays taxes? Why bring this random acquisition.

        Ironic to be talking about going dark when posting via an internet connection.

        If you need the protections that privacy coins provide, both sides of the transaction will find a way to make it work.

        This is a fantasy. With respect to specific transaction you can make anything work. You can dried fruit in such a transaction too. Doesn’t mean it’s viable to live purely via exchange of dried fruit.

        I am not talking about what the xkcd comic alludes. I referring to the fact that a world exist outside of the monero blockchain and believe it or not, one has to interact with the real world.

        Monero is a red herring. It is not simple to cash out monero and it provides a false sense of security.

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