Comment on Kratsios: NIST needs ‘to go back to basics’ on standards for AI, not safety evaluation
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 16 hours agoI would argue that’s part of the (unfortunate) effectiveness of libertarianism as an oligarch polemic.
Comment on Kratsios: NIST needs ‘to go back to basics’ on standards for AI, not safety evaluation
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 16 hours agoI would argue that’s part of the (unfortunate) effectiveness of libertarianism as an oligarch polemic.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 13 hours ago
I’ve recently refreshed my mind on Khmer Rouge, and have gotten a very nasty feeling that, in a right (wrong) combination of circumstances, my ideological ideas could eventually lead to something like that. Despite being libertarian.
But one thing very notable about them - despite in ideology being frankly very fascist in addition to communist (fascist in a deep sense, the anti-intellectualism, the reliance on emotion, rejection of modernity and complexity, feeling of soil and violence, the almost deified organization, using 12-14 year olds as the main armed force, all that), many things, like their “struggle sessions” and the “quick and radical” solutions, were, one can say, reliant on wide participation and popular approval.
So. An oligarch is a businessman with power bending the law and allowing them to capture, together with other oligarchs, a sphere of the economy.
Oligarchy is not nice, and eventually always leads to authoritarianism (initially oligarchs install their tools at the top of the state, and then eventually those tools become the primary bearers of power and oligarchs their pockets, and then eventually oligarchs are robbed and the relatives and clansmen of the tools own everything).
However, it has nothing to do with libertarianism, because libertarianism is principally based on freedom of association (oligarchy usually involves suppressing unions and customer associations and cooperatives, and suppressing competition ; this also is about freedom of making a deal), non-aggression (understood as oligopoly being aggression in the means to enforce it, and the same about IP and patents) and natural law, the latter being rigid idea of ownership where what you create fully is yours fully, what you didn’t create is not yours at all, and the intermediate (real) things being all compromises between these. That notoriously makes owning territory dubious, which, ahem, is not very good for oligarchy.
That’s if there’s a working system of enforcing such a libertarian order, and if there’s none, then it’s not libertarianism.
And why did I mention Khmer Rouge - I don’t think blaming everything upon oligarchs and such is useful. Most of the people supporting any existing order are not bosses. If a society has oligarchy, then this means its wide masses are in general in favor of morality of oligarchy (who managed to capture a portion of an industry, deserves to milk it forever, and who managed to capture an institution regulating it, deserves the spoils, and so on), just like wide masses of Khmer peasants were more or less in agreement with that party’s ideas, until, of course, it became fully empowered.
It’s a failure of education, and I don’t think libertarianism is a component in that failure, after all, Kato institute is one of the organizations which haven’t ideologically drifted and just do what they are openly intended to do - provide the libertarian perspective on any events. Not drifting into lies in attempt to secure support is something I’d consider a good commendation. Maybe carriers of other ideologies should look at how that was achieved and build their own similar institutions. Then at some point problems might start being resolved by people knowing what they are doing.
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Can’t speak for Khemer Rouge, but I agree that oligarchy is not some sort of isolated element and it is a reflection of challenges within a society.
The theory of liberaterianism sounds good on paper, but it does not reflect reality. The reality is that it is an oligarch ideology aimed at providing polemical cover to corruption and criminality.
Perfect freedom of association does not exist in reality. There are informational asymmetries, externalities, natural monopolies (makes no sense two build two set of water pipes to a house) and whole host of other issues.
It’s like with communism, good in theory, but the individuals who went about implementing it all turned out to be brutal and authoritarian.
From my perspective, it’s the same with libertarianism. Lots of pompous musing about freedom, but when it comes down it, it’s just a type of brand of polemics favoured by the American oligarch regime.
The Cato institute solved the problems of externalities? Wow, this is news to me! How did they do it?
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 8 hours ago
It’s not a theory of how economics work, libertarians rely upon different schools for that. It’s a theory of moral substantiation of any social order. That is, how to minimize the amount of “I’m threatening you with a stick, so you admit that I make law, and then we pretend this moment didn’t happen and that law existed always and nobody’s rights were violated”. As is clear, violence and servitude are not accepted by libertarians, while rights are accepted. So it’s basically still development of the French revolutionary ideas.
By theory you seem to mean a set of ready instructions. It’s not a set of ready instructions like with Stalinist model (and like Khmer Rouge example shows, those too could go far worse than the bloody and inefficient, but supposedly predictable expected result).
No it’s not and it isn’t. Very easy to call it that now, when the oligarchs themselves “confirm” it, but 10 years ago oligarchs themselves just loved liberal democracies with left traits, because those made laws convenient for them. Your memory seems a bit short.
Yes, it doesn’t, but the closer the better usually. Nobody claims it does. Nobody relies upon that.
I agree with the comparison between Soviet official communism and what some Americans call libertarianism.
I think you might be having hallucinations. I said that they are not trying to do things they are not intended to do. Just work with the model they have and the problems they see.
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Violence and historical conceptions of servitude aren’t the only way to violate rights. Rejection of externalities does not require violence or servitude; yet it is arguably a fundamental aspect of libertarianism.
I don’t mean specific instructions, I am talking about philosophical perspectives too. Perfect freedom of association does not exist in a universe (reality) with externalities.
I would disagree, be it in the American context or in other countries. In other countries, oligarchs don’t bother since libertarian polemics aren’t the best tool for the job. I lived in the US under Bush and Obama, I can’t say that US oligarchs from the time “just loved liberal democracies with left traits”.
Some other examples come to mind (no web searches, just going from memory).
While on a general level, I agree that “the closer the better”, individuals who associate with libertarianism almost universally reject personal responsibility by leveraging polemics about “free” association.
Even casually opening the Cato website (did it as an experiment), reveals a clear disregard for reality and tons of open corporate propaganda. Demagoguery; undeniably pre-meditated dishonesty.