Are the payment processors saying Visa"MC told them to not process payments for this content? Or are they smjist citing a section of the agreement when being asked why they’re telling retailers to take down this content?
Valves statement also matches with the claims of Itch.io, Stripe, and what Collective Shout themselves have claimed. So we’ve got two different claims, on one side are Visa and Mastercard, and on the other we’ve got literally everyone else. I feel pretty confident about which one is a load of bullshit.
It’s also worth noting that Visa and Mastercard are playing semantic games with their statements. Nobody ever claimed they were “refusing legal transactions”, rather what they’re doing is threatening to stop working with any business that doesn’t implement censorship that they’re happy with. It’s a subtle but important difference and they’ve never denied that’s what they’re doing.
baronvonj@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
orclev@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Nobody on any side has cited any sections of any agreement specifically. The closest we’ve got is the statement from Stripe who is the payment processor who recently had to turn down business with a womens sexual education charity (despite spending months trying to get to an agreement) and the reason they cited was contractual obligations with banking networks including Visa and Mastercard. They stated they want to be able to process payments for porn companies, and that they’re exploring other options, but they couldn’t at this time.
Zorque@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
From an article posted yesterday
“Mastercard did not communicate with Valve directly, despite our request to do so,” Valve’s statement sent over email to Kotaku reads. “Mastercard communicated with payment processors and their acquiring banks. Payment processors communicated this with Valve, and we replied by outlining Steam’s policy since 2018 of attempting to distribute games that are legal for distribution. Payment processors rejected this, and specifically cited Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand.”
Microw@piefed.zip 3 weeks ago
Sounds like Visa and Mastercard have clauses in their contracts that they don't even care about themselves, but payment processors like Stripe are bound to then
A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Well said, that is an accurate analysis of the situation
davidagain@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Isn’t owning a credit card age gating anyway? I don’t think you can legally own a credit card in the UK.
orclev@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You would think, but I believe the law(s) require verification of a photo ID. I haven’t looked too closely into the UK one, but the way the laws are written for a couple of the US states a credit card doesn’t meet the requirements. There’s also the fact that many of the preview images and videos for porn games on Steam show nudity and/or sex and you can access those without needing to purchase the game (just the birthday question to “verify” your age).
Atherel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
If you need to be 18 to own a credit card, then you’re old enough to buy those games. And buying with steam gift card doesn’t involve MasterCard or Visa for that payment, so it’s literally none of their business.
orclev@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So that’s kind of missing the point. First as I pointed out you don’t actually have to buy anything to see the explicit preview images, so Steam is arguably in violation of those laws. Secondly the issue is that the Visa and Mastercard contracts require companies to be in compliance with local laws. It doesn’t matter whether someone is using a Visa or Mastercard to make the actual payment if the purchase would technically be considered illegal (which it arguably could be in some states/countries under the new super strict porn laws).
At the end of the day this boils down to a) terms of the Visa/Mastercard contracts, and possibly b) new anti-porn laws that are putting an onerous burden on services to collect customers IDs in order to prove age. This isn’t a question of common sense, in contract law (and law in general) it’s about the letter of it and not so much the spirit. Yes, it stands to reason that if you legally own a credit card, and you must be at least 18 to own a card, then you are obviously 18 or older. However that doesn’t matter at all when the laws are written such that services must validate age using a photo ID. It also does not account for stolen credit cards (never mind that that’s a far more serious situation than the possibility of under age kids seeing some naughty pixels).
This whole situation is stupid and Visa and Mastercard clearly need to make some changes to their terms and conditions, but until they do from a legal standpoint businesses like Valve and Itch.io have their hands tied.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Credit card, yes, but a debit card that can be used for online transactions? I had one at 13. My mom had to co-sign for it, but I got one when I setup an account to deposit my paper route checks.
davidagain@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Ah, true, yes.