Yeah but people in Finland are out raking forests all day to prevent wildfires which leaves very little time for mass shootings.
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chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 weeks agoFinland has almost as many households (as a %) with guns as the U.S. (38% for Finland vs 42% for the U.S.) yet the U.S. has about 19x the per capita gun homicide rate of Finland.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Well yeah that’s sort of the point. The presence of guns alone does not predict gun violence. You need violent people for it to happen.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Now compare the gun violence rate of both of those countries with the gun violence rate of somewhere that bans guns.
Maybe we’ll see that Finland has a way to further reduce their gun violence.
acosmichippo@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
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you can’t just ignore outliers, that’s called p hacking.
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total guns is important. why should we ignore households with more than one gun? even just households with two guns are not crazy outliers and vastly change the comparison.
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what kind of guns are we talking about? iirc Finns get a standard issue rifle for military service. Handguns are more often used in crime.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Because the argument is that guns cause violent crime (specifically mass shootings) and the example of Finland shows that not to be the case. Then if guns don’t cause violent crime what is it?
The most likely explanation to me is that there is a confounder: an unknown which causes both the acquisition of (one or more) guns and the commission of crimes. A hidden criminality element which Finland seems to lack.
The alternative explanation is that the U.S. is a broken society (in one or more ways) and that this leads people to feel the desire to lash out in extremely violent ways. The availability of guns in the US offers them an easy option for inflicting mass casualties but the recent example of Michigan shows that even without a gun there is still the opportunity for mayhem.
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masterspace@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
Wikipedia says that 12% of Finns own a gun, so I’m not sure where you’re getting 38% of households.
Finland also does not allow owning guns for personal protection, open or concealed carry, has mandatory military service, and most of the guns owned are long guns used for hunting and sport shooting. To get a license for a pistol you have to be over 20 and demonstrated over 2 years of experience sport shooting pistols.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I got it from Wikipedia. Households and people are different statistics. People includes children who are unlikely to own a gun.