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Comment on I'm the creator of Seedit and I'm here to share how it works and clear up some Concerns/FUDS

doesn’t rely on any servers or instances .

Yet is hosted on Github and presumably requires a working DNS and HTTPS system to download.

Users connect to your node directly, p2p, and nobody can stop you.

Except your ISP and/or government.

the protocol is text only, to embed media, you need to host it on the regular ( Centralized ) internet, and then you link to it like example.com/image.jpg, and the host will stop hosting that image and report your IP.

So your supposedly non-centralized project requires external hosting? It’s like NFTs where the images were just worthless links. :P Also, uh, base64 encoding is a thing and clients will absolutely start supporting it.

the community creator can assign mods, mods can remove posts from that community.

… Isn’t this what you’ve been trying to avoid?

if a community is badly moderated, the user will never see it, it wont be recommended to him.

Finally, a mention of content discovery. How is your recommendation system implemented? What decides whether a community is worth being recommended?

Also being p2p, seedit is not private, so it can’t really be used for illegal activity

Wait… Isn’t your whole pitch that it was censorship resistant? Can you clarify your threat model here, who are you actually worried about censoring your platform?

[ActivityPub servers] are hard to run and manage.

And using a completely unknown new service and protocol isn’t? I’m sure there’s tons of documentation out there for hosting Mostodon or Lemmy servers.

the problem with federated social media is that each federated instance is just a regular centralized sites.

I agree with this, but not for the reasons you’ve stated.

P2P also scales infinitely, which is the reverse of centralized websites like federated instances: the more users there are, the faster it gets.

P2P scales much worse than centralized systems. Centralized systems scale at N connections per node, while P2P systems scale at N^2 connections per node.

You know what, I don’t mind this project. We need a place for far right people to go to to avoid “censorship” (getting banned from a subreddit for doing nothing but throwing slurs at people) and collaborate on their “plans” (killing minorities) on a platform that is “private” (easily traceable, unencrypted and linked to your IP address).

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EstebanAbaroa@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

Yet is hosted on Github and presumably requires a working DNS and HTTPS system to download.

Incorrect, Seedit works similarly to a BitTorrent client, you just open the app and you’re connected p2p to the communities, similarly to how you connect p2p to torrent seeders.

Except your ISP and/or government.

Your ISP and/or government can’t stop you. Just like they can’t stop you from downloading a torrent or using Bitcoin with a full node. They can make you life harder, tracking you, sending you to jail etc but they can’t prevent the initial p2p connection.

So your supposedly non-centralized project requires external hosting? It’s like NFTs where the images were just worthless links. :P Also, uh, base64 encoding is a thing and clients will absolutely start supporting it.

Posting images isn’t required. Why would you want to decentralize media hosting anyway (which is impossible)? To share CSAM? Not sure why you’d want to do that. Also, no, base64 encoding isn’t allowed in the protocol, you literally can’t publish it to the p2p network because there are character limits.

… Isn’t this what you’ve been trying to avoid?

Nope, how would that make any sense? A community is such if it’s moderated. If it’s unmoderated, it’s not even a community, it would be fully unusable because of spam.

Finally, a mention of content discovery. How is your recommendation system implemented? What decides whether a community is worth being recommended?

Our clients use github.com/plebbit/temporary-default-subplebbits also you can query the ethereum and solana blockchains for .eth and .sol domains respectively with text records/subdomains of value “subplebbit-address” (see: dune.com/plebbit/plebbit-protocol) and we’ll support more decentralized domain systems later.

Wait… Isn’t your whole pitch that it was censorship resistant? Can you clarify your threat model here, who are you actually worried about censoring your platform?

Again, it works like torrents. Torrents are censorship resistant, yet torrents aren’t private because your IP address is in the p2p swarm. Law enforcement can use expensive fingerprinting software to catch the big fish, for very illegal content sharing.

And using a completely unknown new service and protocol isn’t? I’m sure there’s tons of documentation out there for hosting Mostodon or Lemmy servers.

Well, which is harder in your opinion, opening a reddit-like app and create a sub (and that’s it, it runs a p2p full node automatically for the sub) or: buy a domain with ssl, set up the server, pay for the server, set up moderation for the whole instance, get censored, get sued, get defederated by other instances, prevent spam, etc.

I agree with this, but not for the reasons you’ve stated.

You’ll see the light.

P2P scales much worse than centralized systems. Centralized systems scale at N connections per node, while P2P systems scale at N^2 connections per node.

Wrong. Real-world P2P systems don’t use full mesh and don’t require O(N²) connections. They typically scale with far fewer connections per node (e.g. O(log N)), while centralized systems hit bottlenecks at O(N) connections to a single server.

You know what, I don’t mind this project. We need a place for far right people to go to to avoid “censorship” (getting banned from a subreddit for doing nothing but throwing slurs at people) and collaborate on their “plans” (killing minorities) on a platform that is “private” (easily traceable, unencrypted and linked to your IP address).

Plebbit is neutral, anyone can use it (left wing, right wing, apolitical etc), nobody can stop anyone from using it. And it can’t get taken down nor shut down, it’s eternal.

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- savvywolf@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Incorrect
  
  Uhh… No, your link is to Github. If Microsoft decide they don’t like something you’re doing, they can wipe your app off the surface of the planet. At least mirror it to Codeberg or something.
  
  Same thing for Google and Apple by the way, if you want to make a mobile app. They don’t like you, you’re gone from their platform.
  
  They can make you life harder, tracking you, sending you to jail etc but they can’t prevent the initial p2p connection.
  
  Honestly, if I were doing anything that required a uncensorable network connection, “avoiding going to jail” feels like it’d be one of my top priorities…
  
  Also, no, base64 encoding isn’t allowed in the protocol, you literally can’t publish it to the p2p network because there are character limits.
  
  What are you going to do? Ask people politely to not do it?
  
  Nope, how would that make any sense? A community is such if it’s moderated. If it’s unmoderated, it’s not even a community, it would be fully unusable because of spam.
  
  Every time Plebbit has been shilled here, the advertising has always criticized “power-tripping” Reddit and Lemmy[sic] mods and tries to place itself as a “free speech” platform.
  
  Our clients use github.com/plebbit/temporary-default-subplebbits
  
  So your decentralised peer to peer platform has a list of curated nodes that must have nearly 100% uptime.
  
  you can query the ethereum and solana blockchains for .eth and .sol domains respectively with text records/subdomains of value “subplebbit-address” (see: dune.com/plebbit/plebbit-protocol) and we’ll support more decentralized domain systems later.
  
  Just copy ATProto and use did identifiers with DNS. No need to use blockchain for name lookups.
  
  Okay, this project has consumed too much of my time so… I’m probably just going to leave it here. However I do have some last thoughts.
  
  I agree that ActivityPub does have centralization problems. It’s mostly decentralized, but has problems with having many small kingdoms that tend to not always get along. I think that’s something that ATProto gets right; your name and “instance” are decoupled so it’s trivial to hop from one to another. And honestly, I think a Lemmy-like built on top of ATProto could work really well, and may even be better than AP based ones.
  
  But… This project seems to be reinventing the wheel for no good reason. It ignores existing technologies in favour of venture capitalist scams. It has a very muddled set of priorities. The project management is sending out massive red flags. I don’t have trust that this project will solve the problems with Lemmy and Reddit.
  
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