Comment on The endless battle to banish the world’s most notorious stalker website
orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months agoCould you please read the whole article before commenting?
It’s incredibly easy for an ISP to point out that they’re not going to block a network for a different reason by pointing out it’s… not the same reason.
No offense, but don’t pursue a law degree, that’s not how things work in the real world. The EFF has a long history of fighting for these sorts of things, they have enough experienced people to know what they are talking about.
A state has enough leverage to push around and ISP to comply, and the ISP gains nothing in opposing.
The EFF deserves to be roundly condemned for this, especially as it has no obvious alternative.
There is. People can be persecuted individually. This has happened in the past without ISPs blocking whole websites.
The position is intellectually dishonest unless you’re actually pro-killing-transgender people.
Speaking of fallacies…
pqdinfo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
No offense, but keep your patronizing “Anyone who disagrees with me could only have just heard of this article I just skimmed, and not been discussing it in depth for the last week” bullshit out of my replies.
As for a “law degree”, the idea that the state needs to justify ordering an ISP to do something by pointing out it did something different previously shows both a complete lack of understanding of the law, and ignorance of how the real world works, especially when fascists are involved.
No, they can’t. Not without introducing a layer of draconian laws with international agreements to prop up these laws that would almost certainly include the end of privacy on the Internet as we know it.
And, incidentally, THAT, not “Hey, an ISP once blocked another ISP to check notes prevent people from being killed, therefore we suddenly have the power to make ISPs block abortion information which we didn’t before”, is what would bring about a world where free speech ends on the 'net.
Where?
orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
You somehow think that you know how the law regarding digital rights works (and the consequence that precedents may have in court), better than the EFF. Who have 33 years of experience studying and fighting in courts.
Based on how composed you’ve been in this comment section, I’m going to assume that’s longer than you’ve been alive.
jet@hackertalks.com 9 months ago
They are feeling personally attacked, by the content of the discussion, so they’re acting out. That’s completely understandable at a human level.
The reason we have these discourses is so we can hammer out our ideals, and see them implemented in different ways.
So let’s use other examples, so that people aren’t as emotionally invested in the particular discourse.
Telecommunication providers, at least in the United States, are given safe harbor from the content they deliver, so long as they don’t editorialize (select what’s allowed). If something’s illegal that’s up to the legal system to enforce. And if there’s a court order websites can be taken off, routes can be blackhold, links can be seized.
The United States government, and their politicians, have a long history of not cutting off the communication even of their enemies. We still maintained phone connections to the USSR during the entire Cold war. The internet was not shut off in Iraq during the Iraqi wars. Iran despite sanctions is still online. US certainly could bully many of the world’s interconnects to completely drop these countries. But they don’t. For a variety of reasons, but I think the most fundamental is you have to demonstrate that you believe in your free communication principles if you want everyone to mimic them. A secondary but still important reason, is to see what your enemies are saying. That’s actionable intelligence!
pqdinfo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I was accused of not reading an article in the most patronizing way imaginable, while in fact you’d have had to be a complete moron to think that I’d have said what I said had I not.
Am I feeling personally attacked? Yes. But I’m also feeling like there’s a real attempt to derail the conversation. Look at the parent post, which posts a nonsense assertion essentially pretending I wrote something entirely different to what I wrote, and that the EFF didn’t write what it did.
Right now, people are being killed, and the response by the EFF is “Huh duh, the US government should just use its existing laws to prosecute the people responsible” when actually the US government doesn’t even know who is responsible, would be operating out of its jurisdiction in many cases (such as what’s going on Ireland) and there’s no simple way to get that information that doesn’t involve a giant draconian piece of legislation being passed by governments around the world to ensure that when sites like this are created, it’s easy to find the people who use them in a short space of time and shut them down.
And the response to this is “Well, sure, but ISPs shouldn’t bother to do anything about life and death situations, even when they can.” And then people here are posting drivel about how if a private entity bans one website in a life or death situation, this suddenly opens some kind of gate which means the State of Texas can pass laws to ban other things.
Completely ignoring that (1) that gate, were it to exist, has been open since the 1990s, the anti-spammers and protectors of Usenet and so on, opened it and (2) the gate doesn’t exist anyway, Texas can pass any law it wants as long as it doesn’t violate the first amendment. And, well, Texas can probably ignore the first amendment anyway because SCOTUS.
This isn’t about being emotional, it’s about the fact that the EFF’s viewpoint is… shit. It’s indefensible.
pqdinfo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have written nothing implying that, no. I’ve said the EFF’s argument is bullshit because the US government cannot enforce the laws the EFF says could be used. Not that they don’t exist, but that this is an international network that heavily uses anonymity. The US government likely cannot at all, and if it can can only do expensively and slowly, too slowly to prevent deaths, ban this website.
Right back atcha.
alienanimals@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“Why won’t anyone engage with my fallacious bullshit?” - pqdinfo “Well, this is why” - orizuru “BLOCKED” - pqdinfo