Comment on I want to build a Mini ITX PC for my home server, where do I start?
sxan@midwest.social 3 days agoHow much is “limited?” I’ve got one of those AMD Ryzen mobile CPU jobs that I bought new, from Amazon, for $300. I added a 2TB M.2 drive for another $100. For a bit over $200 ($230?) you can get a 4TB M.2 NVMe.
And that’s for fast storage. There’s USB3 A and C ports, so nearly unlimited external - slower, but still faster than your WiFi - drives.
When bcachefs is reliable, it’s got staged multi-device caching for the stuff you’re actually using, and background writing to your slower drives. I’m really looking forward to that, but TBH I have all of our media on a USB3 SSD it’s plenty fast enough to stream videos and music from.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 days ago
Yeah, I really don’t know what constraints OP is working under. Here are mine:
If I was building today, I’d probably still go HDD because few mobos have >2 NVMe slots, and NVMe gets expensive at higher capacities, especially if RAID is on the table.
If my NAS was 100% backed up, I wouldn’t need RAID and I would probably use NVMe to save on space and complexity.
Why tho? Just use btrfs or zfs, they’re proven in production, and have a lot of good documentation.
sxan@midwest.social 3 days ago
Shit, that’s a lot of storage. K.
I’ve lived on btrfs for years. I love the filesystem. However, RAID had been unreliable for a decade now, with no indication that it will ever be fixed; but most importantly, neither btrfs not zfs have prioritized multi-device support, and bcachefs does.
You can configure a filesystem built from an SSD, a hard drive, and a USB drive, and configure it so that writes and reads go to the SSD first, and are eventually replicated to the hard drive, and eventually eventually to the USB drive. All behind the scenes, so you’re working at SSD speeds for R/W, even if the USB hasn’t yet gotten all of the changes. With btrfs and zfs, you’re working at the speed of the slowest device in your multi-device FS; with bcachefs, you work at the speed of the fastest.
There’s a lot in there I don’t know about yet, like: can it be configured s.t. the fastest is an LRU? But from what I read, it’s designed very similar to L1/L2 cache and main memory.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 days ago
RAID is production ready on btrfs, the only issue is the write hole on RAID 5/6. If you don’t need RAID 5/6, you’re fine. I use RAID 1, which is 100% production ready.
Ah, I’ve never considered that use case. My HDD RAID 1 array is plenty fast for what I need.
But isn’t that basically what a cache drive does? It mostly caches reads, but I think it can cache writes too.
Good to know if that’s your use case, but it sounds pretty niche to me.
sxan@midwest.social 3 days ago
It actually is RAID5/6 I’m looking for. Striping for speed isn’t important to my, and simple redundancy at a cost of 1/2 your total capacity isn’t a nice as getting 3/5 of your total capacity while having drive failure protection and redundancy.
Used to go the device mapper and LVM route, but it was a administrative nightmare for a self-hoster. I only used the commands when something went wrong, which was infrequent enough that I’d forget everything between events and need to re-learn it while worrying that something else would fail while I was fixing it. And changing distros was a nightmare. I use the btrfs command enough for other things to keep it reasonably fresh; if it could reliably do RAID5, I’d have RAID5 again instead of limping along with no RAID and relying on snapshots, backups, and long outages when drives fail.
Multi device is only niche because nothing else supports it yet. I’ll bet once bcachefs becomes more standard (or, if, given the main author of the project), you’ll see it a lot more. The ability to use your M.2 but have eventual consistency replication to one or more slower USB drives without performance impact will be game changing. I’ve been wondering whether this will be usable with network mounted shares as level-3 replication. It’s a fascinating concept.