Comment on Florida’s New Social Media Bill Says the Quiet Part Out Loud and Demands an Encryption Backdoor
tal@lemmy.today 1 week ago
it would require “social media platforms to provide a mechanism to decrypt end-to-end encryption when law enforcement obtains a subpoena.”
Mmmhmm. Apparently the Threadiverse is about to become illegal in Florida.
First, let’s generate a strong public-private GPG keypair for myself and some hypothetical other Threadiverse user.
$ gpg --quick-generate-key tal@lemmy.today $ gpg --quick-generate-key anotheruser@lemmy.today
And show the tal@lemmy.today public key:
:::spoiler long keyblock $ gpg -a --export tal@lemmy.today -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
mQGNBGf6kRMBDAD3qJIznSVVQZu092nTthUt8R8DNXS6eYNqgbpYHTY+6i+RSFMe YDDnOz0cL3drxnWpNC37l9HouJGohua/Cjx2Iju/zd4A5mZkXchIt4lfZ3bbXx2k p0eC1m9+B3Dc37lSLPgEpTnfPGtMfKJU4bNVBdwkFCyS9Mxc499uIrAUpjPQLmgP 1rQ2Wk1wzGfAh3VNCxg8xsHcOHWQZqSUzsLk/PeG1QtfGTVBG44tI6msGawwQct6 XVnVOk0DfEGmoru4dGuQDk+oZRVz/O4/wLOQzfAVCzsbv/RrCzywrcQM3WAoVBDI awe9UG++Y4N6Eof46UQ1KnzA2ndkHFt35KybidaqxlWM4Sslx/Is+wCgqt+FpJRN MPLsAet6Eg6vGB6ES3Fk/IXX5OEvtWMfKKrgSP88NwoP/VFr/BU7SsJW1Opo4Ccf DDPuWlgMCmsVE9xsPS1oFMzxiHbJYj8gWgH7AOtl24NgYXVi/QdetYA6SZqonU0T xnGmEw5JdcvWdmMAEQEAAbQPdGFsQGxlbW15LnRvZGF5iQHUBBMBCgA+FiEE7S76 Je3x/gWVtrNsdlwPXPfD8YIFAmf6kRMCGwMFCQWjmoAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQdlwPXPfD8YJy+wv+JJ3MP+zZRy4pJZ+u7iiSOwVVwUboT8Pi kX7rxLl6TF9wGuLPjl/P8Cfy0WMsZQ2Ab0S/84cE2bIVbcISwqeqkMZ1Puk6y5Nn 8uHK3qHrYb1n89uOwjgeBIC3XopdJpSPtaKBWHZn/s0AYQ3suqJt/BoJo+hTv4oJ /8Rtcs2+YKnQtoLtM/0tKO3J4Qzvqrzi0F14R1Rv6kiFzePkEPQFSPN4uIR5CPJm t6HuYWYcWNKhfIkKJH08GAV0jP+qrbe/yacO0tKt8gnxKBdpXLRwLePx5sDV14ch Ay/3n1aVa7PbUGA4m51xOSl0Ro54s6K8uwJ2fz6z5fdjpOkbvDw51tPEdxQzW0JH myyaC31j4h5YwzOAfGaK6lp3pAHStDFhDJXZPLYsDlcMGSPvV+qBMAh86t8mqIqd tBPjNj60aIbps+mImBpRlO/xRvUWjjVsm1FKqxBq7QQR5SW0MLnkwvcnUMDCbOs/ wMN6ghyZp6RDhUXGgb9HJVSQhXLjaqf+uQGNBGf6kRMBDADFYNE00Rr2Ujm9+i7k LsHz49xqJUNtv3b7pHWTOZNhkSFf/OieayE45lkBMQl1ZkuY56QjmcgYZWsOf7+y kbrsQjdNE5lHl/hRAqGV13LUscTKPUCvTXnfFX+/p64Kgv1f74fAdfkQu663sGOM xbFP9/3jOQLF9dI2M8H14TPF/JDhjXDZvvoMrMBxwFlRctvwbeS6Yar+XKxKZQvh I63Ad2OyFc0p+pnJOnrWN3Q6iEqnAq0SA/EdsjVx3MWpqZW15YDyU0lIWrHAn/yD PfMaAqcgXj2LLBDziYdfm1ACBceS+WAu6w7i07xMAbdypKOsPB2cL1PlX//WEiwW 55iBTJ7oRAW7Q0LRsk2k40mq61xfOLyOBT8gHJfEb7ked9KuSXQdBn9K2hT2SH+U OT2E63ShPHL9F2F1yQSbjFbHJve2klIuqrMeJ21QtDWgz+Auzp7PPWZ59SN+XCVj qzrueXIvzsK3Shfqf636/Buj1g5heIY3nBd3dtbq4gUBO90AEQEAAYkBtgQYAQoA IBYhBO0u+iXt8f4FlbazbHZcD1z3w/GCBQJn+pETAhsMAAoJEHZcD1z3w/GCzXkL /i1k5ra/YZPpiJgCOO61x6Iog5/hyL/APhHT/CMg1ZAYObfqCD0QT0f+n0qdZXhH ALGXzCMsbFqr0oxqOFFccLGQzUxv9AkyrO94HLoL726fxi3gkF+UekHjWgcxkcXQ PHZCOdHczxyCIGRB+mKn+tGweXpCwMNkymagdoyzOs+t+5cGUTv18ceun72Mqf1H 4vCZ4LLb94NLkSJqGKeQuzjVhopDVCJ8t/exRuk2ra2SkeChKPCpq5zJP+OpzAx3 hPNSL9v8xRD6D/NKQP/zYXvry1dfQaaOYUbw+GMgSxtVNsTyGMtDg2kE8ZSuvVKq ZIoODdjZRZvTB90+UKFRF3st1MeBXGNskvcZJhit7K1eMGhUbjykNWrq0A8aoRAN P0DBRg09Uumub1GNnJlHFNxAS5e0A686YHzA6AOify+lhscdrFKiv8GRFBZGK39W vY5YDDdpY632O6w1Te1UFIhS7pIWXsm5AfffFPDc/UJd6ZaBOcnKH45R4y2qObS2 eA== =ommg -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
:::
And then show an example of someone else importing it, pretending that they’re anotheruser@lemmy.today (though in my case, I’ve already got the tal@lemmy.today public key in my keyring):
:::spoiler another long keyblock $ gpg -a --import tal@lemmy.today <<EOF -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
mQGNBGf6kRMBDAD3qJIznSVVQZu092nTthUt8R8DNXS6eYNqgbpYHTY+6i+RSFMe YDDnOz0cL3drxnWpNC37l9HouJGohua/Cjx2Iju/zd4A5mZkXchIt4lfZ3bbXx2k p0eC1m9+B3Dc37lSLPgEpTnfPGtMfKJU4bNVBdwkFCyS9Mxc499uIrAUpjPQLmgP 1rQ2Wk1wzGfAh3VNCxg8xsHcOHWQZqSUzsLk/PeG1QtfGTVBG44tI6msGawwQct6 XVnVOk0DfEGmoru4dGuQDk+oZRVz/O4/wLOQzfAVCzsbv/RrCzywrcQM3WAoVBDI awe9UG++Y4N6Eof46UQ1KnzA2ndkHFt35KybidaqxlWM4Sslx/Is+wCgqt+FpJRN MPLsAet6Eg6vGB6ES3Fk/IXX5OEvtWMfKKrgSP88NwoP/VFr/BU7SsJW1Opo4Ccf DDPuWlgMCmsVE9xsPS1oFMzxiHbJYj8gWgH7AOtl24NgYXVi/QdetYA6SZqonU0T xnGmEw5JdcvWdmMAEQEAAbQPdGFsQGxlbW15LnRvZGF5iQHUBBMBCgA+FiEE7S76 Je3x/gWVtrNsdlwPXPfD8YIFAmf6kRMCGwMFCQWjmoAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQdlwPXPfD8YJy+wv+JJ3MP+zZRy4pJZ+u7iiSOwVVwUboT8Pi kX7rxLl6TF9wGuLPjl/P8Cfy0WMsZQ2Ab0S/84cE2bIVbcISwqeqkMZ1Puk6y5Nn 8uHK3qHrYb1n89uOwjgeBIC3XopdJpSPtaKBWHZn/s0AYQ3suqJt/BoJo+hTv4oJ /8Rtcs2+YKnQtoLtM/0tKO3J4Qzvqrzi0F14R1Rv6kiFzePkEPQFSPN4uIR5CPJm t6HuYWYcWNKhfIkKJH08GAV0jP+qrbe/yacO0tKt8gnxKBdpXLRwLePx5sDV14ch Ay/3n1aVa7PbUGA4m51xOSl0Ro54s6K8uwJ2fz6z5fdjpOkbvDw51tPEdxQzW0JH myyaC31j4h5YwzOAfGaK6lp3pAHStDFhDJXZPLYsDlcMGSPvV+qBMAh86t8mqIqd tBPjNj60aIbps+mImBpRlO/xRvUWjjVsm1FKqxBq7QQR5SW0MLnkwvcnUMDCbOs/ wMN6ghyZp6RDhUXGgb9HJVSQhXLjaqf+uQGNBGf6kRMBDADFYNE00Rr2Ujm9+i7k LsHz49xqJUNtv3b7pHWTOZNhkSFf/OieayE45lkBMQl1ZkuY56QjmcgYZWsOf7+y kbrsQjdNE5lHl/hRAqGV13LUscTKPUCvTXnfFX+/p64Kgv1f74fAdfkQu663sGOM xbFP9/3jOQLF9dI2M8H14TPF/JDhjXDZvvoMrMBxwFlRctvwbeS6Yar+XKxKZQvh I63Ad2OyFc0p+pnJOnrWN3Q6iEqnAq0SA/EdsjVx3MWpqZW15YDyU0lIWrHAn/yD PfMaAqcgXj2LLBDziYdfm1ACBceS+WAu6w7i07xMAbdypKOsPB2cL1PlX//WEiwW 55iBTJ7oRAW7Q0LRsk2k40mq61xfOLyOBT8gHJfEb7ked9KuSXQdBn9K2hT2SH+U OT2E63ShPHL9F2F1yQSbjFbHJve2klIuqrMeJ21QtDWgz+Auzp7PPWZ59SN+XCVj qzrueXIvzsK3Shfqf636/Buj1g5heIY3nBd3dtbq4gUBO90AEQEAAYkBtgQYAQoA IBYhBO0u+iXt8f4FlbazbHZcD1z3w/GCBQJn+pETAhsMAAoJEHZcD1z3w/GCzXkL /i1k5ra/YZPpiJgCOO61x6Iog5/hyL/APhHT/CMg1ZAYObfqCD0QT0f+n0qdZXhH ALGXzCMsbFqr0oxqOFFccLGQzUxv9AkyrO94HLoL726fxi3gkF+UekHjWgcxkcXQ PHZCOdHczxyCIGRB+mKn+tGweXpCwMNkymagdoyzOs+t+5cGUTv18ceun72Mqf1H 4vCZ4LLb94NLkSJqGKeQuzjVhopDVCJ8t/exRuk2ra2SkeChKPCpq5zJP+OpzAx3 hPNSL9v8xRD6D/NKQP/zYXvry1dfQaaOYUbw+GMgSxtVNsTyGMtDg2kE8ZSuvVKq ZIoODdjZRZvTB90+UKFRF3st1MeBXGNskvcZJhit7K1eMGhUbjykNWrq0A8aoRAN P0DBRg09Uumub1GNnJlHFNxAS5e0A686YHzA6AOify+lhscdrFKiv8GRFBZGK39W vY5YDDdpY632O6w1Te1UFIhS7pIWXsm5AfffFPDc/UJd6ZaBOcnKH45R4y2qObS2 eA== =ommg -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- EOF
:::
And now let’s use end-to-end encryption that doesn’t have a back door, using sed to prefix each line with four spaces so that we get nice blockquoted Markdown that we can paste into a Threadiverse comment or direct message to tal@lemmy.today:
:::spoiler encrypting message with end-to-end encryption
$ gpg -a -e -u anotheruser@lemmy.today -r tal@lemmy.today <<EOF |sed "s/^/ /" Hello there, tal@lemmy.today! This is anotheruser@lemmy.today. I just wanted to send you a message. * Florida Man cannot read this. * Even instance admins cannot read this. EOF -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- hQGMAwk4edDpeyVkAQv+Mu6kJj1KkKs8i72YixAbAMuO+uNJDq0Vu9sz9mGUv3nG DibQTkFFz0h+IcK7/2xVrfBcf//6MDqYmlVnTlmpPcNOel4B1YbU4KpHus6ZELcy 7t0WP2IX03FWTooIBdfX7jIdH9us7PPyG2s4edTX7yD69H7oRdVJiNN6qJUbtObU sHWfmq0oQlHoevw47FuWGjAaIbA9volFV3IotEAhmTQ8cCJs2SG8bQjiJmpGE5pO xBSNtqo9X49FhQ0xoouwWil/9c76nNw7MtF/4WjU2HlzzRdFIXKeReq0ZzJ8fdkU YENYV+7lcp3jmGm91nC+E7HYTCjwy6XmMx+6wrzpCtNnLOaOL9caC7Div6ZvBtBi RVTiT1Kewth+QQvLHh2ErN0XKDzFrfFqfrZq4tX3TTn3rQkM/v0UrlR+3rr+iePX iKPmtsQBxNa81GVNxx0IR/1r+by8ELenCCRjaq2OpzfUhckqHkn1M6ycBPrwX8yR uBuIf7E65Pi2QfSoDeOH0rsBR/yGwU/h8HeEp6ChYEEEs1v+INI2dQ+zxhqaimKz vg7gTlVNplI9rpb/VLhlk8tzjCMQ4+Dqe4KeYqtvCLLJtgPFNlujMrgOEmbDL46X kQ8xQTForYFqPvODnPDUo+dbmt2UlXJGw3dyztEhQRUEqoCvUan9ERcY1gJS4mT6 WmAJKfVHfLos+UiibRZBhRzAsFCvyEPF1lOEJNVD0cz9tya2CfszNsqz+ITeHWfm HchPmmEq4pqHr1/a =PQN2 -----END PGP MESSAGE-----
:::
And let’s have tal@lemmy.today decrypt it:
:::spoiler decrypting message $ gpg -a -d <<EOF -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
hQGMAwk4edDpeyVkAQv+Mu6kJj1KkKs8i72YixAbAMuO+uNJDq0Vu9sz9mGUv3nG DibQTkFFz0h+IcK7/2xVrfBcf//6MDqYmlVnTlmpPcNOel4B1YbU4KpHus6ZELcy 7t0WP2IX03FWTooIBdfX7jIdH9us7PPyG2s4edTX7yD69H7oRdVJiNN6qJUbtObU sHWfmq0oQlHoevw47FuWGjAaIbA9volFV3IotEAhmTQ8cCJs2SG8bQjiJmpGE5pO xBSNtqo9X49FhQ0xoouwWil/9c76nNw7MtF/4WjU2HlzzRdFIXKeReq0ZzJ8fdkU YENYV+7lcp3jmGm91nC+E7HYTCjwy6XmMx+6wrzpCtNnLOaOL9caC7Div6ZvBtBi RVTiT1Kewth+QQvLHh2ErN0XKDzFrfFqfrZq4tX3TTn3rQkM/v0UrlR+3rr+iePX iKPmtsQBxNa81GVNxx0IR/1r+by8ELenCCRjaq2OpzfUhckqHkn1M6ycBPrwX8yR uBuIf7E65Pi2QfSoDeOH0rsBR/yGwU/h8HeEp6ChYEEEs1v+INI2dQ+zxhqaimKz vg7gTlVNplI9rpb/VLhlk8tzjCMQ4+Dqe4KeYqtvCLLJtgPFNlujMrgOEmbDL46X kQ8xQTForYFqPvODnPDUo+dbmt2UlXJGw3dyztEhQRUEqoCvUan9ERcY1gJS4mT6 WmAJKfVHfLos+UiibRZBhRzAsFCvyEPF1lOEJNVD0cz9tya2CfszNsqz+ITeHWfm HchPmmEq4pqHr1/a =PQN2 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- EOF gpg: encrypted with 3072-bit RSA key, ID 093879D0E97B2564, created 2025-04-12 "tal@lemmy.today" Hello there, tal@lemmy.today! This is anotheruser@lemmy.today. I just wanted to send you a message. * Florida Man cannot read this. * Even instance admins cannot read this.
:::
I guess the only option will be to lock up instance admins for violating Florida law, as they’re operating a social media platform with end-to-end encrypted communications with no backdoor.
Actually, on second thought, maybe the in-webpage decryption via the plugin thing I stuck at the end is a bad idea. Like, I bet that a malicious or compromised instance could serve up Javascript in the webpage it provides to read and send the decrypted content from the web page.
But not a problem for the approach in general, just decrypting-in-place in a webpage.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Not that I disagree with your point, but Florida law is only relevant within Florida and, to a limited extent, the United States. Admins of US-based instances could likely be subpoenaed and then held in contempt if they refused, assuming they don’t pull a PornHub and just block all of Florida.
That said, this is very worrying since subpoenas have a MUCH lower threshold of legal bearing than warrants. I suspect that Apple will likely challenge this in court or they stop selling iPhones there.
tal@lemmy.today 6 days ago
Oh, yeah, my concern isn’t really that Florida is planning to go after instance admins — I’m just being sardonic — so much as to point out that any practical enforceability of this is going to have a lot of issues.
I mean, do you mandate that Lemmy disallow third party clients? Try to force them to detect and block encrypted messages? What happens if I start dumping big PGP messages steganographically in images and simply send those? What happens if the image I’m sending is just a link to isn’t even uploaded to pict-rs on a Lemmy instance?
I don’t need to move a whole lot of bits to send messages, and it’s really hard to block people who can send any data at all from having software send data that cannot be read by intermediaries, use the existing social media channel to agree upon out-of-band communications channels that social media operators have no control over, and so forth. Like, okay. Say I am a child-molesting terrorist drug runner money launderer or whatever. I know someone who uses Facebook.
Let’s say that Facebook does a fantastic job of detecting and blocking any E2E communications.
Okay. Now let’s say that there is some other non-social-media system that uses OTR. I use Facebook to send someone my identity on that OTR system, as well as – which doesn’t need to be in any kind of standardized format — the shared secret OTR uses to boostrap trust between two parties. That shared secret becomes useless after the initial handshake completes. Is Florida going to figure out everything that I’m saying, manage to break into whatever other channel I’m using, and MITM the thing? Probably not, since even if they supoena Facebook and Facebook gives them that shared secret, it doesn’t let them later MITM the OTR communications.
That sounds complicated, but from a user standpoint it’s “Let’s talk on <program X>. I’m <user>, and here’s <string>.” The other person fires up their program, pastes string in, and unless Florida have already supeonaed and MITMed that channel, at that point, the deed is done – out-of-band E2E-encrypted communications are boostrapped, and Mark Zuckerberg can’t read them or let anyone else read them even if he wants to do so.
taco@piefed.social 3 days ago
And even then only to the extent those with the power to do so choose to enforce it. It might matter if you or I break the law; it will not matter in any meaningful way if Meta does.