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Comment on Cashless shops operating illegally in Netherlands & Belgium; corporate disobedience

max@nano.garden ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

Yes, it is increasingly difficult to pay with cash in the Netherlands. Even at the Albert Heijn they have set it up such that it is a lot more convenient NOT to pay with cash. They have a large amount of self-service pin-only checkouts, and one or maybe two workers accepting cash at the manual checkout lane.

One path is to make an effort to resist this digital move and pressure politicians so that they enforce these type of rules and that cash is accepted. But I think this can at best slow this process down.

The other path is to embrace the digital move and start integrating crypto currencies into our societies in a more substantial manner. I know that many people have given up in crypto, but, putting speculation and hype aside, crypto is the best way we know of to integrate cash-like payments into the digital world. Right? Or is this something others disagree with?

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to55@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
The upcoming digital Euro will be sort of a cryptocurrency, and is as close to digital cash as it can get.

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- max@nano.garden ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Interesting. I haven’t followed development in the space of “official” crypto currencies, but my impression is that these will probably be centralized, have little to no privacy features, and that the governments will be able to control access to the funds.
  
  But I may be wrong - maybe they are actually building decentralized crypto networks? I just find it hard to believe that a government would do this.
  
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  - to55@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’ll try to find the article I read. If I find it, I’ll report back (;
    
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  - to55@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    [deleted]
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    max@nano.garden ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Dank je wel!
    
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activistPnk@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Cash is still the least common denominator because cryptocurrency excludes low tech users & it’s also unusable in a variety of tech failures. So cash should be held in the highest regard and protected as such. Cash is also the only instrument by which two people can transact without interference. E.g. cryptocurrency is not 100% fungible because a gov can issue an order that certain addresses are blackballed.

I also welcome cryptocurrency though to fill gaps where cash is impractical, like sending money remotely. Banks should have the lowest regard because they can (and do) bully and mistreat people.

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- max@nano.garden ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You are right… Cash is king, and letting it be phased out is not a good idea.
  
  You have me on board - how do we stop this?
  
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  - activistPnk@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’ve taken some individual actions which can only make a difference collectively, progressing in difficulty:
    
    Started off switching back to cash in all the simple scenarios (paying grocers, restaurants, fuel). Some credit cards give the biggest rebates in those categories precisely because the credit card adds no benefit to those types purchases.
    
    When dining with a group of people, insist on getting your own separate bill. Otherwise if just one person insists on using a credit card, the whole bill would be paid by that card & the resto would have no metric showing that they were fed in part by a cash payment. Restaurants have been baited¹ by Visa so it’s important to offset that tactic by making sure restaurants get cash payments. ① Visa offered a $10k bonus to restaurants who commit to refusing cash for 1 year. That’s an easy decision for an owner to make if all their payments are by card anyway.
    
    If a business is needlessly cashless (e.g. they are a brick and mortar establishment), boycott them.
    
    Buying other goods with credit card sometimes have extended warranty benefits. I eventually decided to give those up & pay cash. But then I found that cash is more widely accepted at street markets and prices are often quite low (esp. for 2nd hand).
    
    Boycott Amazon just because they are probably the most harmful retailer anyway. Once you take that step, it’s easier to nix online shopping entirely because there’s not much competition left anyway. Buy local.
    
    Boycott products from members of betterthancashalliance.org. E.g. #Unilever. That’s a huge range of products. Note that Bill Gates is a key player behind the #betterThanCashAlliance.
    
    File complaints and put of a fight whenever the gov. forces you to pay electronically to a government office. You can boycott the private sector but you can’t quit taxation, so it’s important to make the biggest stink when a public service requires non-cash payments.
    
    Pay utility bills in cash. Yeah it’s a hassle but in some cases you can reduce billing frequency to quarterly & they’re happy to accept large advance payments as well.
    
    When donating money to a non-profit, don’t let them dictate terms. They have no leverage. Get their mailing address to mail small cash donations, or find out which conferences they will appear at and pay them in person.
    
    In the US you can pay taxes in cash. Not sure about other countries.
    
    If you run a business of course consider making it cash only. If you’re in a country like Belgium where accepting electronic payment is an obligation, offer a 10% discount to cash payers.
    
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    max@nano.garden ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Thanks! Not only is this a great list of actions, but it also has helped me see this whole issue from a new perspective. More specifically, I multiple times I have tried to switch to cash-only because of privacy reasons, and I eventually become discouraged. For example, I recently gave up again. I have a shared card with my girlfriend, and she doesn’t really care much about privacy, so I felt like I was punishing myself for not good reason by paying with cash if my girlfriend next was going to pay with our card anyway.
    
    But now that you have framed it from the point of view of those accepting cash, it does give me an additional source of motivation. It’s not only about my personal privacy, but also about pressuring vendors to accept it. This makes it worth it even in cases where there might not be a privacy benefit. Starting now, attempt #I-lost-count begins.
    
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