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Comment on What do people use for a shelf-stable backup

Dave@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

So, I have a server that has a backup drive, automated backups, and replication to laptops as well as cloud storage in Backblaze B2. What I’m looking for is something completely separated from the automation that is a backup for if I screw up the automation, as well as a backup that a layman can access (i.e. no encryption, media that is usable by anyone). I have had some very bad experiences with flash drives but I am thinking a HDD with SATA->USB cable attached (I already have the cable).

From the other conversations in this thread mentioning many options, the hard drive option seems the best for my use case, but I’ve also been convinced of the benefit of printing out some physical photos as well, so my current plan is to get a big container, put a couple of mirrored hard drives in there (to validate against each other as protection against bit-rot), and print 100 photos each year to add to the container to have an extra layer of redundancy.

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Krik@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Printing the photos won’t help much. After 20 or so years they are all discolored. You can’t prevent that.

I think SSDs might be the best storage medium for you. Consumer-grade ssds have a 1 year data retention when powered off. That means at least once per year you have to turn it on and copy the data around one time to refresh the cells. This way it’ll probably last several 100 years.

You can’t exactly make it fool-proof. Outside people will never know what you did to create your backup and what to do to access it. Who knows if the drives file system or file types are still readable after 20 years? Who knows if SATA and USB connectors are still around after that time?
For example it is very likely that SATA will disappear within the next 10-15 years as hdds are becoming more and more an enterprise thing and consumers are switching to M.2 ssds.

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- Dave@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  The printed photos are only there as an extra layer of redundancy in case everything else fails. It’s ok if they get discoloured a bit, it never put me off going through my grandparents’ suitcases of photos. Ideally the digital files survive, if not then at least there is something rather than nothing.
  
  Is SSD really necessary? Everything I search up says SSDs have worse retention than HDD in cold storage. A couple TB of HDD is pretty cheap these days, and seems like a better cold storage option.
  
  You can’t exactly make it fool-proof. Outside people will never know what you did to create your backup and what to do to access it. Who knows if the drives file system or file types are still readable after 20 years? Who knows if SATA and USB connectors are still around after that time?
  
  Yes, so now I’m thinking a rotation cycle. About every 5 years replace the drives with new ones, copy over all data. If newer technology exists then I can move to that newer technology. This way I’m keeping it up to date as long as I can.
  
  For example it is very likely that SATA will disappear within the next 10-15 years as hdds are becoming more and more an enterprise thing and consumers are switching to M.2 ssds.
  
  Does this matter if I have a SATA->USB cable stored with it? Other than if USB A standards change or get abandoned for USB C, but that should be covered by the review every 5 years.
  
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  - Krik@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    
    Is SSD really necessary? Everything I search up says SSDs have worse retention than HDD in cold storage. A couple TB of HDD is pretty cheap these days, and seems like a better cold storage option.
    
    SSDs are by design less susceptible by design. No moving parts and able to work in much harsher conditions than hdds will ever be able to. The standard set by JEDEC requires every consumer ssd to have a 1 year data retention while powered off at 30 °C (I think). That’s the minimum it has to archieve but usually they are better than that. Do not buy the cheapest thumb drives because they contain the all the crap that wasn’t good enough to make ssds from it.
    Btw you need to fire hdds up regularly too or the motor gets stuck. I think every 3-6 months was the recommendation.
    
    Yes, so now I’m thinking a rotation cycle. About every 5 years replace the drives with new ones, copy over all data.
    
    Don’t make it flat every 5 years. Let a software monitor the SMART values of the drives and send notifications if the values indicate an increased change of a dying disc/ssd.
    
    Does this matter if I have a SATA->USB cable stored with it? Those are the first that fail, followed by the usb controller chip in the tray. Keep it as simple as possible. Removable trays are probably the best way but I’m not sure how much wear they can take.
    
    Do not buy 2.5" drives. This class will die out soon™. There were no new hdds introduced in years and ssds are often replaced by M.2 ones because of the faster connection.
    
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    Dave@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    You are the first person who has recommended SSD for cold storage. Everyone else (including what I’ve googled) says HDD for cold storage, just spin up every year or two and they will be fine. Can you point me at further reading?
    
    Don’t worry, I’ll SMART check the drives each year as I update as required.
    
    As for types of drives dying out soon, I can reassess the situation every 5 years when I do drive replacement. I would be confident 2.5" drives will still be readable in 5 years.
    
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