Cost for wind and battery back up is cheaper than nuclear Similar for solar. So when people talk about the need for back up they don’t mention that the cost including back up is still cheaper than nuclear, which is cheaper than fossil fuels.
Comment on Why are energy bills going up, if there is more green power? - BBC News
iii@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Unreliable power generation needs on-demand backup generation, typically natural gas based. That’s the perverse effect of renewables: as grid scale seasonal storage is impossible, it increases dependance on gas.
Now you’re paying for both the renewables and fossil infrastructure. During dunkleflaute, you pay an arm and a leg. Anualized price is high.
hitmyspot@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
iii@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Cost for wind and battery back up
To supply germany for one week you need more than the world’s supply of batteries. Pumped storage is currently the only technology that could make grid-scale power storage work.
hitmyspot@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Is this in an imaginary world with no power from anywhere else, including international interchange? Total battery power is a society ending event. It’s hard to speculate on a power situation that doesn’t exist.
Costs are based on supply and demand. At current demand battery power back up is cheaper than non environmentally friendly forms of energy. Should that change due to supply issues, we can recalibrate.
Howevwrx the smart money, which happens to also benefit the environment, is on green energy.
Tobberone@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
You are so right. Thank you! In a situation where it is impossible to generate or import any electricity at all, a nuclear reactor would not be able to produce any electricity either, because the grid is non-operational.
poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
That is a naive way of looking at how the electricity market currently functions and is regulated.
Due to how the pricing is regulated in the market there is a perverse incentive for electricity producers to keep expensive gas plants running to increase profits from their renewable sources, as they can ask the highest production price for all the electricity produced regardless of the actual source.
This regulation was originally intended to increase profits of producers with a small base of renewables and incentivize them into investing in more renewables and I guess you can say that worked in the early 2000. But now that we have a substantial install base of renewables, it highly disincentivizes producers to retire their remaining expensive gas plants and invest in better transmission and energy storage.
iii@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
You’re probably talking about the day-ahead market (1). Only a small portion of electricity is traded on that market. It’s a marginal factor.
Most is traded OTC, longer term.
I’ve worked as energy trader.
It is a fundamental problem of technology. Here in Belgium the government started subsidising gas plants, passing the costs on to end-consumers, as they’re necessary for balancing the grid, but unprofitable to run. (1)
poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
iii@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
You’re incorrect in both your understanding of energy markets, and my paychecks.
Again, you’re basing this on the day-ahead market. A marginal market in terms of traded power volume.