Comment on /c/café daily chat thread for 17 August 2023

• weecious@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Tbf, the Non-Muslims are in a tough position. Put up too much of a fuss, we’re branded kafir la, pendatang la, tak hormat la. We can only fight back when the moderate Malays push back together with us.

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  • cendawanita@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oh I absolutely get that fear. Queer ppl with other privileged identities can share the same concern. The thing is that last bit though - were moderate malays invisible or something? We’re right here. Always been here. Bila buka topik, don’t want to campur tho -“ah, never mind la your thing one”. That’s what I’m responding/reacting to, that very specific willingness to don’t bother (and to use DukeGR4’s comment as an example pov that I’m also talking about here). Of course have to stay safe - I’m just saying oh now worry la, dulu org lain kena sell down the river tolong cover line pun barely there. Don’t even have to speak up unnecessarily, that just invites trouble - but to swerve and use a small thing example: no need so excessively worried if this biskut or that cake halal right in front of me if I didn’t ask you to worry (and maaaaaybe that person is unofficially non-practicing but can’t say nothing cos it’s a crime). In terms of where I’m situating my response is not like Terengganu where mainly KT yg ada non-Malays. I’m talking about Klang Valley and similar places where it’s demographically a situation of at least two ethnic socioeconomic majoritarian blocs. I think from this pov is why ppl always bring up Borneo enviously but part of that social pact is looking out for each other.

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    • weecious@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      were moderate malays invisible or something?

      Not invisible but not that obvious perhaps? I used to bring my dogs to this vet run by Malays. They love my dogs, but got some complaints about having dogs in the clinic. We have seen some moderate ones who would pet our dogs, just that we feel bad that the clinic staff had to deal with those Karens.

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      • cendawanita@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        That is a great example. I guess it didn’t help if they feel like there’s no one else in their corner, like dog owners stopping to use their business because the fascists were loud 😕

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• dukeGR4@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  speaking from Chinese perspective - it’s not an issue for them because they most likely have benefited from the system. Most, if not all successful businessmen in my Chinese town were actually pro BN. BN had good business policies that essentially wiped out all the competition in many industries so long as you are willing to work with Malay stakeholders.

  also cash is king, with money they can buy the best experience possible to distract them from reality. they can afford to fly first class to Paris to eat Kuah Sone and Bak Kut Teh when they experience minor inconveniences lol. what does oppression of non-muslim rights even mean to them lol, and why should they give a damn about the plight of commoners.

  in many ways it’s probably like medieval kingdoms and their subjects, you have nobles living behind walls but their subjects don’t even have bread to eat and having it tough out there.

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  • cendawanita@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oh yeah that social pact where they’re benefiting is extremely clear, and your comment is very much about the kind of people I’ve been sideeyeing for decades now. If anything, just fly. In the meantime the poor non-Malays can suffer sorang. The Malays, no need to say la. To quote their favourite politicians: melayu malas and mudah lupa mah. We’ll just keep scamming anyone who’s open to be scammed.

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    • dukeGR4@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If anything, just fly. In the meantime the poor non-Malays can suffer sorang.

      tbf this is the job of the government, i don’t think it’s any private citizen’s burden (regardless of race) to uplift poor individuals from poverty. by right, if you pay your taxes you have already done your part.

      that said, if you haven’t noticed, Chinese have a lot of Clans and Associations, and they are usually funded by rich Chinese businessmen also. they don’t exactly issue cash handouts to poorer Chinese, but there’s definitely money in it (scholarships, contracts, employment, networking, trade etc). It’s also a Neo-Confucius tradition to encourage education and many Chinese businessmen donated loads of money back to their former schools. My SJK© was almost entirely sponsored by a few Datuk Seri and a Tan Sri for example.

      The Malays, no need to say la. To quote their favourite politicians: melayu malas and mudah lupa mah. We’ll just keep scamming anyone who’s open to be scammed.

      This guy is internally racist. there are many Malays out there that have it hard as they represent a vast majority of the B40 cohort. But what they really should be fighting of is decentralisation of the Government and give local councils and states more autonomy and the ability to raise revenue to fund public infrastructures for the local people. This is the only way to uplift poverty and improve social mobility. that and combined with good healthcare system.

      Campaigning for a more racist government does not achieve anything, it’s fucking expensive to oppress citizens. and yes, there is a cost of not empowering your citizens. I know firsthand through work that gender pay gap alone (due to systematic oppression) cost billions lol due to unrealised productivity.

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      • cendawanita@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        tbf this is the job of the government, i don’t think it’s any private citizen’s burden (regardless of race) to uplift poor individuals from poverty. by right, if you pay your taxes you have already done your part.

        I absolutely agree on the obligations of the state and the purposes of taxation, and I’m noting even yourself complicated the opening position that it’s not any private citizen’s burden with your following paras. BUT-- while economic class is absolutely a complicating factor here, my main argument is on racism (both bilaterally between the main majorities but also unilaterally from those with institutional power). Weath has managed to shield to a certain extent the effects of these encroachments (to keep within the Muslim-Malay world; how can certain royals can have wine in KL hotels and some random people will get arrested for drinking beer in Setapak? and of course, no one bothered that Malays are being arrested by the religious police, until these moral vanguards decide to make it everyone’s problem by bullying your 7-11s and Famimas to change their cold drinks inventory).

        Part of the valid reasons for affirmative action was because European/Asian colonialism (Britain and Japan to a large part of the country; Dutch and Siamese in certain territories) left native & indigenous groups poor while the migrant populations were oppressed and dikerah tenaga in a different way and they’re told to be satisfied that they’re serving an extractive economy because at least “we work hard, not like those natives who live in the kampungs”. I can see you also agree how racist and divisive this is. I bring this up, because the Chinese-community charitable works are great and no reason to discontinue them (and not to mention, in the absence of institutional support that’s where charity comes in, but it shouldn’t be pervasive and neither should it replace institutional support). But (small but) that ability to economically empower ourselves has been uneven (and note in this exchange I’m not even touching the situations of the Indian and OA communities respectively who have even less communal wealth to go around), and this unevenness arguablty contributed to the lack of solidarity and the don’t-bother/tidak-apa attitude.

        my big thing is basically this: i love that we have a very mixed, diverse, and heterogenous society, that is still, just like other post-colonial states, is trying to make its way forward. But does that fact hinders solidarity? I don’t think it should and it’s not like the 1960s & 70s didn’t exist (and if it stopped existing, it required a lot of uh, state action). How is it PAS boleh naik minyak complaining about Pesta Songkran when it shouldn’t be their business to complain? Well, because they had practice - and that supposed almost 60% of bumiputera population also includes… Borneans, so it wasn’t much of a demographic majority either, what more an economic one, because mana Melayu at the time between 1970s to the 1990s that was wealthy enough to seed the schools, the papers, the magazines, the theatres, the cultural troupes to push back? So kena telan, kena tahan, and then nowadays kena kecam, for not trying hard enough at being moderate.

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