Comment on Renewables supply 71% of Portugal’s electricity in 2024, led by solar

• poVoq@slrpnk.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  There is also such things as other power sources and demand variations 🤷‍♂️ Very few people run their electric stoves at 2am.

  Look, this is not rocket science. It works well in other EU countries. No one claimed that PV could cover 100% of the electricity demand without storage.

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  • Mihies@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Other things run through night such as heat pumps, water heaters, EV charging etc. And those other sources are usual fossil fuel based which emit a lot of pollution and CO2. And it doesn’t work that well in other countries when you reach a threshold.

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    • poVoq@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      If you had read the article you would know that these are already largely covered by hydro and wind power and not fossil fuels in Portugal.

      The only part that is unusually small (but growing quickly) compared to similar EU countries is PV.

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      • Mihies@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Hydro is more or less constant and wind is random. How does one cover a huge amount of solar energy when it’s out? You can’t increase hydro and you can’t force wind to blow.

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• Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Portugal has a huge installed base of hydro-generation, some of which is capable of being used to store excess energy (by pumping it up to the upper basin of the dam for later use in generation).

  The mix of lots of hours of sunlight, the country being not so hot that solar panels suffer from lower efficiency due to heat and hydro-generation which can be used for storing excess power produced for use later, makes the country pretty much optimal for solar generation.

  No, the reason for the crap legislation can probably be found in the deep incestuous relationship between the two main political parties and the largest power generation company of the country alongside Portugal being one of the most corrupt countries in the EU.

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  • Mihies@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Well, I doubt it a bit how much pumped hydro capacity is there in Portugal, but you’d need an obscene capacity if you wanted to go full renewable partially based on solar panels. Found this by quick search:

    "However, the dependency on electricity imports from Spain will increase significantly, especially in drier years. " www.sciencedirect.com/…/S2352152X24037800

    Basically you’d be using Spain as energy source when you don’t have enough energy at hand.

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    • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Actually technology such as solar concentrators using molten salt is perfectly capable of supplying power at night.

      In addition to that Portugal has also invested a lot in Wind generation (which, for all my criticism of my own country, was actually a wise bet) which doesn’t suffer from the problem of not producing at night or when there is heavy cloud cover.

      Further, power consumption at night is mostly residential since industry seldom operates at those hours, and if electricity prices for business customers are made to float with availability, in a solar-heavy production environment big industrial consumers would be fitting their consumption to the period when solar is up.

      Also, consider that even when the days are shorter in Portugal, they’re still longer than most of Europe because of how far South the country is compare to most of the rest - even at the peak of Winter days are at worst about 9h long.

      As for that problem in drier years you pointed out, it’s even more of a problem with the hydro-heavy generation that the country has at the moment, so having more solar would make it less of a problem: yeah, drier years would affect the ability to store excess power produced by solar in dams but, guess what, solar would still be producing fine during the day even in the worst drought whilst hydro would not, same as it happened 2 years ago when the share of renewables was down to less than 50% exactly because a longuish period of drought forced most hydro-generation to stop.

      Solar is hardly a silver bullet, but for a country like Portugal which has excellent conditions for it, solar should be a far larger slice of the generation makeup than it is, especially considering that the single biggest source of renewable energy - hydro - is the one which will be worst hit with the effects of Global Warming.

      But yeah, your point is valid that renewables, at least in Portugal, won’t work by themselves unless there is some deeper interconnection with the rest of Europe and even Northern Africa to balance production across a wider area (when wind is not blowing somewhere, it still blows somewhere else, and the same applies to cloudy weather vs sunny weather), some kind of energy market which incentivizes heavy consumers to consumer the most when solar is at its peak and for investors to actually invest in energy storage to make money from “arbitraging the sunlight” (i.e. store cheap electricity during the day to sell it for more at night) or to use the kind of solar technology that also works during the night (i.e. molten salt solar concentrators). I say “at least in Portugal” because the whole problem with Global Warming and hydro-generation is going to be very nasty in Portugal (according to Global Warming Models which predict most of the country will basically turn into a desert) but some other places in Europe are going to be a lot more rainy and hence can reliably get their renewables from hydro.

      That said, I am almost 100% certain that the politicians in Portugal will not make the right choices and instead will make the choices that maximize short-term profitability for the largest energy company in the country, because that’s mainly what they’ve been doing in the last couple of decades.

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