I’m sorry for asking, and I’ll look it up if you don’t want to explain it here, but can you give me just an example of the gameplay experience of what you’re talking about? Just elder scrolls to elder scrolls player.
I’m sure it is there, I’m just curious because I didn’t notice it when I was playing Skyrim, but like I said, I only played it once.
And I think that was about the time they stopped providing user manuals which i always read before games so I don’t even know if I got to read the skill tree.
Dude I remember when Morrowind came out, I read that pamphlet like a tome multiple times.
With Skyrim I don’t remember anything except running from dragon to dragon, then killing the main dragon and then I couldn’t believe the game was over so quickly, and I thought it was like a false ending, but it wasn’t.
And there was a really cool laboratory on a mountain near the wizard school that was very versatile but didn’t actually matter but I felt like it should have played some part in the main storyline.
Yeah as you can tell, sorry, my memories aren’t super strong of that game.
abraxas@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Sure.
Oblivion is a great example. In Oblivion, skills level similarly to Skryim (with use). Unlike Oblivion, a lot of skills do not provide survival value as feedback. Simply “living your best life” often leads you to have a master of Acrobatics and Atheletics. You run and jump too much, you end up finding enemies are outpacing you because they scale from you running and jumping too much.
This exists to a lesser extent in Skyrim. The difference? Feats. Your feats improve your build focus in two ways. They’re virtually ALL good even if you only dabble in your skill of choice. And they create a pressure to focus on a skill to reach the feat. Yeah, you could blow 10 levels in heavy armor and then run around naked, but dead builds are a bit more contrived.
But then, there’s part 2. In Oblivion, the skills drive your attribute gains. When you level, you pick an attribute to gain, but how much you gain is based on how many skill points you spent. If you overblow a level, you will find you have to choose between 2 or 2 maxed +5 (I think +5 was max), and then in future levels you will have fewer increased +x options. It’s a great little spreadsheet game to be “better”, but if you screw it up, you feel it.
Actually, check out “the Leveling Problem”
Ditto in a way with Morrowind. I had to google to remind myself. Morrowind is similar to Oblivion, but still had more “firm” classes. How you level and train will still affect whether your attributes are good or shit, even if you end up levelling basically the same skills with basically the same overall attribute goals.
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’m glad you attached “the leveling problem”, I understand what that’s saying.
I don’t think I pay close enough attention to leveling in these games because if any enemy is too strong, if I level fireball or long blade whatever or any skill, as long as I move correctly, I can circumvent the challenge. Or there’s a boulder available for me to throw fireballs from, I’m fine no matter what the enemy is.
The challenge of the game definitely until Skyrim anyway, is undoubtedly limited by the controls available to us and as a result, the enemies we’re presented with.
And there’s always a way available to solve any sort of direct defeat in an elder scrolls game (run backward until they swing one step back, one step forward after they swing, strike, run backwards again. Repeat).
I guess the details of leveling differences never made a difference to how I played the game (maybe tes 6 will be different) since the underlying combat system, while fun and engaging, is not yet very challenging to be understood and overcome.
I actually love to Play the game this way, I’m not casting aspersions, I’m glad if I just spend enough time punching people and animals in the face, I get so good at punching things that I get to dominate the entire world, that’s very fun in a video game.
That’s why I never noticed the leveling details, because the leveling of the characters just incidental to all of the stories told within each game, but that is interesting that there’s an entire article about “the leveling problem.”
I know I used a Morrowind mod where I limited all skills to 40, that seems like the only practical solution to the leveling problem as far as I understand it.
Once elder scrolls 9 comes out and we’re all just in virtual worlds ducking and running and jumping with dynamic fields of view and enemy behavior, the fighting will be way more interesting.
Did you play Skyrim a different way because of the leveling system that you noticed while playing it?
abraxas@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Fair enough! Ultimately, I like the game to reward levelling in general with a reduction in difficulty, so I don’t have to obsess over “levelling well” or “gitting gud”. I don’t usually play Soulsborne games for that very reason.
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Makes sense, I definitely can’t be bothered with leveling “properly”. I don’t mind choosing different feats or paying casual attention to how I allocate skills gained through experience, but I don’t want to turn an open-world adventure into a detail-oriented spreadsheet journey toward an ultimate ratio, haha