Comment on Matrix 2.0 Is Here!

96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Could someone smarter than me explain Matrix to me?

  It’s a real-time messaging platform. The most common use case for it is text chat, both in groups (like Discord or IRC) and person-to-person (like mobile phone text/SMS). It has other features as well, like voice chat, video conference, and screen sharing, although much of that is newer and only just beginning to get support in clients.

  • What would be the utility for someone, who cares about privacy and currently uses Signal and email for communication?

  Compared to Signal:

  • Matrix doesn’t require a phone number, or even an email address (although some public homeservers want an email address as a recovery option in case you forget your password).
  • Matrix has a variety of clients, so finding an app that fits your needs is likely to be easier.
  • Matrix clients typically don’t require Google services at all; neither to get the software nor to receive notifications.
  • Matrix cannot be monitored at any single location, so it’s more resistant to meta-data tracking at the network level.
  • Matrix cannot be shut down by any single organization, so it’s more resistant to censorship and denial-of-service attacks. If a homeserver is ever forced offline, only the accounts on that homeserver go away; all your other contacts remain intact.
  • Matrix (last time I checked) had better support for using multiple devices on the same account.
  • Matrix homeservers can be self-hosted by anyone, and still participate in the global network.
  • Signal’s encryption covers more meta-data at the application level than Matrix currently does. This might be important if you’re a whistleblower or journalist whose safety depends on hiding your contacts from well-positioned adversaries, for example.

  Compared to email:

  • Matrix has end-to-end encryption, with forward secrecy, built in.
  • Matrix is geared for instant messaging.
  • Matrix supports features that people have come to expect from modern chat platforms, like reaction emoji and message editing.

  • What advantage would it give me over other services?

  We already covered Signal, and there are too many other services to compare every difference in all of them, but here are some common advantages:

  • Matrix is a completely open protocol, developed through a public and open process, with open-source servers and client apps. This is important to people who care about privacy because it can be scrutinized by anyone to verify that it operates as it claims to, and can be improved by anyone with a good idea and motivation to participate.
  • Matrix has multiple clients for every major platform: desktop, mobile, and web.
  • Matrix handles groups of practically any size (including just one or two people).
  • Matrix messages can be delivered even when you’re offline, no matter for how long, and they persist until you’re online again.

  • Is Matrix anything good already, or is it something with potential that’s still fully in development?

  Until recently: Ever since cross-signing and encryption-by-default arrived a couple years ago, it has been somewhere between “still rough” and “pretty good”, depending on one’s needs and habits. I have been using it with friends and small groups for about five years, and although encrypted chats have sometimes been temperamental, they have worked pretty well most of the time. When frustrating glitches have turned up, we sorted them out and continued to use it. This has been worthwhile because Matrix offers a combination of features that is important to us and doesn’t exist anywhere else. I haven’t recommended it to extended family members yet, because not everyone cares as much about privacy or has the patience for troubleshooting in order to get it. However…

  Recently: The frequency of glitches has dropped dramatically. Most of the encryption errors have disappeared, and the remaining ones look likely to be solved by the “Invisible Encryption” measures in Matrix 2.0. Likewise with things like set-up and sign-in lag.

  If you’re considering whether it’s time to try it, I suggest waiting until Matrix 2.0 features are officially implemented in the clients and servers you want to use, which should be pretty soon. I wouldn’t be surprised if I could confidently recommend it to family members in the coming year.

  • How tech savvy does one need to be to use Matrix?

  If you just want to chat, not very. Even one or two of my friends who can barely use email got up and running pretty quickly with a little guidance. Someone who can get started using Lemmy by themselves can probably handle it without guidance.

  If you want to host your own server, moderately tech savvy.

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  • ozymandias117@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’ve used Matrix since the app was called Riot.im and there was no encryption

    I didn’t realize once encryption was added, that there were still metadata leaks as compared to Signal

    Could you give me some information on what metadata is unencrypted, or point me towards documentation about that?

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    • mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Room membership and various other room state events are not currently end-to-end encrypted, which means a nosy admin on a participating homeserver could peek at them. (They’re still not visible on the wire, though, nor on homeservers that don’t host members of the room.)

      I don’t know if Signal is actually much better, since I haven’t looked at their protocol. They hyped their Sealed Sender feature as a solution to things like this, but it can’t really protect from nosy server admins who are able to alter the code, and they fundamentally cannot hide network-level meta-data like who is talking with whom. There’s a brief and pretty accessible description of why in the video accompanying this paper.

      I don’t have a list of Matrix events that are typically unencrypted. You could read the spec to find them, if you were motivated enough to slog through it, but be warned that network protocol specs tend to be long and boring. :) Unfortunately, the few easy-to-digest blog posts about it that I’ve encountered have been both alarmist and inaccurate on important points (one widely circulated one was so bad that the author even retracted it), so not very useful for getting an objective view of the issue.

      However, the maintainers have publicly acknowledged the issue as something they want to fix, both in online forums and in bug reports like this one:

      github.com/element-hq/element-meta/issues/1214

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• isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What would be the utility for someone, who cares about privacy and currently uses Signal and email for communication?

  Matrix is more like discord, no phone numbers, just email, and you can make big groups with different channels within. More meant for communities then something like Signal, that’s mostly for 1:1 conversation or small groups

  What advantage would it give me over other services? Keeping the discord example i said above, no tracking, possibility to have end to end encryption, and open source code, along with the ability of having different instances that can communicate to each other, just like here on lemmy, so if you don’t trust anyone else you can run your own instance

  Is Matrix anything good already, or is it something with potential that’s still fully in development?

  It’s good already, but as with many other privacy focused services it lacks a wide adoption, so most of the communities there are about privacy, Linux and that type of stuff

  How tech savvy does one need to be to use Matrix?

  The most used client, Element, is IMO very easy to use, you can directly register through there, and you get the choice of choosing between the official matrix.org instance (which on certain occasions is laggy due to the many people using it), or other instances

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• Laser@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What would be the utility for someone, who cares about privacy and currently uses Signal and email for communication?

  Your organization can’t host a federated Signal server, and email isn’t private.

  Is Matrix anything good already, or is it something with potential that’s still fully in development?

  My previous organization has used it for over 4 years without issues, however mostly limited to text.

  How tech savvy does one need to be to use Matrix?

  Simply using? Not very much, basically like Lemmy.

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• nutsack@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  matrix is for chat rooms full of strangers. signal is for talking to your friends

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• MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  • What would be the utility for someone, who cares about privacy and currently uses Signal and email for communication?

  None? Use signal, as long as it works. If the Signal server goes down tho, you could selfhost Matrix.

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• jagged_circle@feddit.nl ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Its slack but it can be more secure.

  Its good already and used as a public channel for most popular Foss projects’ chats

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