Comment on TSMC's 2nm process will reportedly get another price hike — $30,000 per wafer for latest cutting-edge tech

• Badeendje@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  And with the issues intel had with their processors…

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  • tal@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It does sound like most of that was not actually manufacturing, but design.

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    • Cort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      If you’re referring to the 13&14th Gen chips then yes, Intel is saying it’s on the software side.

      But if you’re talking about 10th Gen chips that took forever to get out of the gate due to issues with sub 14nm lithography, then no it’s a hardware issue. Intel has had issues over recent years with actual die shrinks.

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      • Badeendje@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Regardless, it feels like what we see with Boeing. A company culture that prioritized marketing and time to market over everything else consequences be damned.

        Move fast and break stuff is probably not the best strategy if you are building airplanes or processors or other PhD level stuff… Or maybe it’s just never a good strategy.

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      • tal@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        If you’re referring to the 13&14th Gen chips then yes, Intel is saying it’s on the software side.

        Yes, I was, but there was also some initial manufacturing issue with oxidation. That wasn’t the bulk of the issues that they were running into, though.

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• GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Intel has only been behind for the last 7 years or so, because they were several years delayed in rolling out their 10nm node. Before 14nm, Intel was always about about 3 years ahead of TSMC. Intel got leapfrogged at that stage because it struggled to implement the finFET technology that is necessary for progressing beyond 14nm.

  The forward progress of semiconductor manufacturing tech isn’t an inevitable march towards improvement. Each generation presents new challenges, and some of them are quite significant.

  In the near future, the challenge is in certain three dimensional gate structures more complicated than finFET (known as Gate All Around FETs) and in backside power delivery. TSMC has decided to delay introducing those techniques because of the complexity and challenges while they squeeze out a few more generations, but it remains to be seen whether they’ll hit a wall where Samsung and/or Intel leapfrog them again. Or maybe Samsung or Intel hit a wall and fall even further behind. Either way, we’re not yet at a stage where we know what things look like beyond 2nm, so there’s still active competition for that future market.

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  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    “Intel has only been behind for the last 7 years or so”

    what is your source for this?

    at what point was intel even at par with tsmc in semiconductor/fab quality and production?

    as far as I understand, Intel has never met the fabrication technology or demand that TSMC has, but has been playing catch up for three decades.

    I’m very willing to read a source article refuting that.

    as for the article you’ve linked, it’s a more technical iteration of the “yea but maybe?” articles.

    There’s zero refutation of tsmc dominance and zero evidence of a true emergent competitor.

    “but it remains to be seen whether they’ll hit a wall where Samsung and/or Intel leapfrog them again. Or maybe Samsung or Intel hit a wall and fall even further behind. Either way, we’re not yet at a stage where we know what things look like beyond 2nm”

    their point is “heyvwe don’t know”, but if tsmc next-gen R&D and production fails, and if another company is able to close the distance between themselves and tsmc’s current held advantage, and if that theoretical company is then able to pull ahead with theoretical technologies, then TSMC might not be in first place in terms of semiconductor manufacturing.

    “but what if…” isn’t exactly a compelling or relevatory argument.

    That’s just saying “what if” a whole bunch of times.

    if a new zero emissions concrete dropped tomorrow and if a company secured the funding to produce it commercially and if they partnered with a next-gen 3d-printing company and real estate developer exclusively committed to low-income housing, then they could build a national chain of economically viable housing units.

    None of that has happened and there’s no evidence of it happening, so it’s just a hypothetical series of events.

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  • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Good article, thanks

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