I also agree that ethical sourcing is pretty ridiculous given real world constraints, but I’m holding out hope that someone figures it out.
Comment on How to Make History Come Alive With AI
Grimy@lemmy.world 1 week agoI mostly agree with what you are saying but I do think sourcing it ethically is a pipe dream.
It’s impossible to get all that data from individuals, it’s way too complicated. What’s already happening is the websites are selling the data and they all have it in their terms of service that they can, even Cara the supposedly pro artist website.
The individuals are not getting compensated and all regulations proposed are aimed at making this the only option. If companies have to pay for all that data while Google and Microsoft are paying premiums to have exclusive access, the open source scene dies overnight.
It really seems to me like there’s a media campaign being run to poison the general populations sentiment so AI companies can turn to the government and say “see, we want regulations, the public wants regulations, it’s a win win”. It’s regulatory capture.
I’m also pro piracy and use it myself for all my media. I still consider it theft even if moral but I understand your point about it stealing from artist. I just don’t think any current regulation will help artists. Personally, I advocate for copy left licenses for anything that uses public data but I sadly have never scene anyone proposed law or government document mention it.
GroupNebula563@lemmy.world 1 week ago
JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 1 week ago
It’s not hard to figure out, it’s just not economically viable to set up a system for it when the alternative is just not worrying about ethics and doing it anyway. We struggle to get companies to pay slightly more for recycled plastic than virgin plastic, this isn’t any different.
GroupNebula563@lemmy.world 1 week ago
By “figure it out” I meant “figure out a way to get big companies on board”
JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 1 week ago
You do that by banning or disincentivising the less ethical option, the moment it’s less economically viable, they’ll pivot, unless it isn’t an option.
JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 1 week ago
“it’s too hard to respect copyright of all the little guys so we’ll just not” is an insane take. If you can’t do it ethically don’t do it at all.
Grimy@lemmy.world 1 week ago
You are being manipulated as to think giving all the power to big data and big AI companies while squashing open source is in your best interest.
Don’t do it at all isn’t an option. Doing it “ethically” means websites like Getty, Deviant art, Adobe getting a fat payday while giving our whole economy to Google and Microsoft. There’s potential serious job loss coming our way, and in your perfect world, all of those jobs lost would go straight into OpenAis or Googles pocket as a subscription service since any other option wouldn’t be afford to build a model.
It is regulatory capture.
Please actually try to understand my points instead of knee jerk reacting all over the place because of their media campaign. OpenAI wants regulations, anthropic got caught literally sending a letter to California telling them they approve the new bills.
I’m being pragmatic, I know any regulation is just meant to build a moat and kill open source, I know the artists are never going to get paid either way. I’d rather not have 2-3 subscription services be our only option and kill open source for what amount to literally no gain for individuals.
Reddit got paid 60 mil for their data, I posted a shitload of content back in the day and still haven’t gotten a dime. I’m sure companies like Getty though will do the right thing, right?
I’m sorry if I’m being harsh but you are being a mouthpiece for the people you hate.
JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Are you done putting words in my mouth? Where did I say anything from the arguments you’re fighting against? I couldn’t give less of a shit what open ai wants, I’m not fighting for open ai, I’m fighting for all the artists who’ve been told again and again copyright infringement against big corpos is a no-no but now we have companies doing the same thing to them and it’s treated as an inevitability. For all I care open ai should be investigated for profiting from data they acquired through the loophole of being non-profit.
What do any of the concerns over the way data acquisition happens have to do with open source? Open source the software, acquire the data ethically. No middle ground. There’s a shit ton of data in the public domain, use that instead of scouring artstation and written books from living writers. Is it not easy to sort or of less quality? Boohoo. If you want better data pay the artists and writers.
Instead of this doomerposting “we’re gonna get the short stick either way might as well get something fun out of it” is exactly why we’re having our livelihoods trampled over.
Grimy@lemmy.world 1 week ago
What you want and what openai want are the same thing. Regulations directly benefit them by giving them and Google a easy peasy monopoly. Artists are never getting a dime out of any of this, all the data is already owned by websites and data brokers.
This is patently false, there isn’t a loop hole. Almost all ml projects use public facing data, it’s accepted and completely legal since it’s highly transformative. What do you think translation software or Shazam uses? You probably already use AI multiple times a week. I’m guessing you didn’t get mad when all the translators lost their job a decade ago.
How can a company actually open source anything if the costs are so insanely high. It’s already above a million in compute power for a foundation model, how many open source projects do you expect if reddit or getty gets to tack on an other 60 million. Even worse, Microsoft and Google will absolutely pay a premium to keep it out of the hands of their competition. And no, there is simply not enough data in the public domain and most of it shit tbh.
You are missing the forest for the tree and this is by design. There’s a reason you are bombarded every day by ai bad articles, it’s to keep you mad about it so you don’t actually think about what these regulations mean.
GroupNebula563@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I agree with JustARaccoon’s reply to your comment, and also this is really turning from a heated debate into a ridiculous argument for something most everyone thinks is wrong. The artists should get their compensation. I don’t care how “improbable” it is, it needs to happen.
Grimy@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I’ll be the first to praise a bill that is actually aimed at helping artist. I’m just being realistic, everything being proposed is catered towards data brokers and the big AI players. If the choice is between artist getting screwed, and artists and society getting screwed, I will choose the former.
I understand it needs to happen but doing the opposite and playing into openAIs hand doesn’t really help imo.