Comment on Is it me or is everyone in hexbear insane?

• m_f@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Ukraine isn’t a utopia, therefore it’s a dystopia”.

  That collection of news headlines are trying to imply “Ukraine isn’t perfect, therefore Putin’s invasion is justified because Ukraine is full Nazi and also the western media is trying to cover it up!”. It’s an immature view of the world, where something being imperfect means it’s literally hitler. It’s something you get past as you grow up, for the most part. I know some adult tankies IRL so it’s not a given that people grow out of it, but each and every single one of them suffers from black and white thinking that negatively impacts their life in many ways.

  Let’s agree that Putin wanting to bring back the USSR is silly. I’m not really defending OP, but calling the responses in that thread “detailed replies” is… oof. They’re detailed in the same way Time Cube is detailed. OP wandered into the pig sty and got muddy, but at least he’s not one of the pigs wallowing in the mud.

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  • mathemachristian@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They’re detailed, they’re sourced and they give a coherent explanation. You can call them crock or whatever but it’s something you can actually argue against. None of this applies to the responses OP gave.

    Also you’re really not understanding what is being said about the nazis in ukraine, namely that they are in power and control of the military. Which is an argument Im not gonna get into since I don’t know enough about it, but there is more to it than the "ukraine is imperfect because it has nazis and this is enough justification case closed. " argument you claim is being put forth.

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    • m_f@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The majority of responses are of this ilk:

      WHAT ABOUT ISM MUCH!!!111?!?1;1!?;1!1?1!1!11?1?1?!1!1?1?1?1!1!!1!1!1?1?1??1!1!1!11!?1?1!1?1?1

      <custom ukraine flag emoji> had no business being nazi fucks murdering their own people and working for <custom us flag emoji> to provoke Russia

      Obomba had no business overthrowing the democratically elected Viktor Yakunovich

      They’re not detailed, sourced, or coherent, they’re just bandwagoning. They’re pigs wallowing in the mud, enjoying getting others muddy.

      One response has images like this and links to news articles:

      Image

      It is sourced, I’ll give you that. It doesn’t try to actually make any argument though, it’s just hoping you’ll see the headlines that think “ukraine == nazis”, without stating that outright. It’s oddly similar to Young Earth Creationists.

      Here’s another response that’s the sort of thing you write when you first learn “omg capitalism is bad you guys!” and view all of the world’s ills through that lens. much dialect wow:

      Anyone who had a look at Lenin’s “Imperialism: highest stage of capitalism” and took it seriously, knew that there would be war in Europe as soon as they realized that the means of production of the former USSR were auctioned in a corrupt fashion, and their structure of ownership went not to western hands, but to national interests that collide with those of the US. Since that moment, it was just a matter of time that there would be conflict.

      Poor oppressed Putin!

      Putin tried really had to be taken into the fold imperialism. He assisted the west in its looting of Russia. He tried to join NATO but the crypto fascists who run NATO will never forgive the Slavic peoples for destroying the third reich

      I’ve waded through the responses now to make sure I’m not missing something worthwhile, and it was a waste of my time. The one thing of value any of these responses has is hopefully one day making the posters feel self cringe when they’ve matured.

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      • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        The majority of responses are of this ilk

        Right so some sarcastic little jokes. The kind of thing all over Lemmy.

        It is sourced, I’ll give you that. It doesn’t try to actually make any argument though, it’s just hoping you’ll see the headlines that think “ukraine == nazis”, without stating that outright. It’s oddly similar to Young Earth Creationists.

        The obvious meaning of that picture is to criticize the about-face of Western media when it comes to Ukrainian far-right movements. The narrative changed immediately. You’re meant to ask why.

        It does not mean “Ukraine == Nazis”. This is your invention.

        Here’s another response that’s the sort of thing you write when you first learn “omg capitalism is bad you guys!” and view all of the world’s ills through that lens. much dialect wow

        The term is “dialectic”. Are you sure you are familiar with the topic you are being condescending about?

        Anyone who had a look at Lenin’s “Imperialism: highest stage of capitalism” and took it seriously, knew that there would be war in Europe as soon as they realized that the means of production of the former USSR were auctioned in a corrupt fashion, and their structure of ownership went not to western hands, but to national interests that collide with those of the US. Since that moment, it was just a matter of time that there would be conflict.

        Poor oppressed Putin!

        A sentiment found nowhere in the statement you quoted. In fact, it is exactly the opposite of focusing on the political leader of the country and instead focuses on the material conditions of the former USSR (which is more than the aRussian Federation).

        I’ve waded through the responses now to make sure I’m not missing something worthwhile, and it was a waste of my time.

        Of course you are free to decide what is worth your time, but your criticisms here have been specious.

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      • mathemachristian@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        My point was that there was much more good faith discussion from hexbear than from OP, I think the posts you copied here illustrate that nicely.

        Also

        Poor oppressed Putin!

        shows how little you understand these arguments, the argument you post after that is meant to illustrate how Putin is an oppressor, not a oppressed or a speaker of the oppressed.

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  • EABOD25@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Just saw this comment. Yes it was silly, and in no way meant to be taken literal. Looking at the history of those states that were under the USSR, putin is trying to keep control of them

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